Long Rods

[narcodog]

I am looking for some practical advise on long rods. I have looked at two different switch rods, TFO and Beaule (sic) rods both about 11ft. I have also gone to the Tenkara rod site and looked at them. The Tenkara are half the price of the switch rods. I fish mostly small to medium streams but I would use it on say, the Madison or Big Hole.
What do you all say?

[jcrumbacher]

Narcodog,

I would definitely recommend giving the Tenkara rods a shot. I recently purchased the Iwana 11' from Tenkara USA and will be ordering the 12' Iwana in the next few days. These rods are much more versatile than most people think. I mostly fish small to medium sized streams in NW PA. However, due to the 12' reach provided by these rods, fishing bigger waters is not a problem (I use them on the Shenango River tailwater, which is over 100' wide). These rods excell at fishing hackles, traditional tenkara hackles, dry flies (you can hold a dry fly in an eddy on the opposite bank for what seems like forever), and even streamers and nymphs (the Yamame is the heavy duty model). If there is a good probability of hooking larger fish, then the Yamame model is the way to go. I prefer the Iwana (the ultralight model) since I mostly target smaller fish (although this rod will handle fish in the 13-14 inch range and they protect light tippets incredibly well). These rods are extremely light, packable, and durable. Perhaps the best aspect is the simplicity. No need to buy a new (overpriced) reel or line. These rods force you to perfect your fish stalking and stealth skills. I myself have gone to a minimalist approach with my fly fishing, and these rods are perfect for that. Also, many of the myths surrounding Tenkara (eg. only for small fish, only for small streams, difficulty landing fish, etc.) have been dispelled one by one now that we have these rods here in the states. One gentleman I've spoken with has landed a 10 lb. grass carp on a Tenkara rig, and Dr. Ishigaki, the world's foremost expert on Tenkara has landed a 30" trout on his rig. Also, these rods are the best way to recreate the traditional loop rod techniques of Webster, etc.

I am in no way officially affiliated with Tenkara USA. However, I have done business with them and have spoken with Daniel both via phone and email. He's always willing to take questions, and the shipping/service is unbelievably fast within the continetal US (I got my rod in 3 days, cross country for only $7.50 shipping). Also, check out the forum on the Tenkara USA website. There's pleny of discussion on rods and techniques, and many of the people currently practising this style in the US are on this board.

I seriously may never go back to conventional (Western) fly fishing gear for trout and panfish.
It's Tenkara here on out for me.

Jay

[skunkaroo]

Damn you all. My curiosity is piqued and now I've got to scrape together the scratch to get one of these things. Given that I'll be using this for fish up to about 16" (41cm) in both slow pools and whitewater pockets, can anyone make recommendations as to the best ratio (i.e. 5:5, 6:4, 7:3)?

Thanks,

Aaron

[skunkaroo]

Thanks for that, Mike. Given that I prefer a sightly slower rod action for both casting and playing, maybe the 5:5 or 6:4 would be more appropriate. I like the look of the Ebisu model although I think I might get more use from the lighter (and slightly shorter) 11' Iwana. I will have to think about it.

Aaron

[CM_Stewart]

narcodog,

I shouldn't comment on switch rods as I've never fished with one. I have done a lot of fishing with tenkara rods, though, and can highly recommend them. I think fishing with a switch rod and a tenkara rod are really two different styles of fishing. With a tenkara rod, your fishing will be very close, but I think you'll find that improved presentation more than offsets the reduced casting distance. I catch a lot more fish than I used to with a regular fly rod. My impression is that switch rods are heavier rods (and heavier line weights) and really in between something like a 9' 6 weight and a full spey rod. If you mostly fish small to medium streams, I would think that was too much rod. I've never fished the Big Hole, and have only fished the Madison twice (one time I got skunked and the other was the only time my arms literally got tired from catching so many fish - one of those once in a lifetime everything works out right days) but a tenkara rod would have been fine, as I was catching fish with short casts. Actually, if you're going to be making long casts, how much advantage do you get from a longer rod? The real advantage, to my eye, is that the long rod allows you to fish a relatively short line - giving you exquisite control. If you are going to be making short casts, you really don't need a reel, unless you are catching 20" fish.

skunkaroo,

If you're only going to get one, and the streams you fish are not so overgrown that other fishermen wouldn't even think of using an 8' rod, I'd suggest the Ebisu. I have the Yamame, the 5:5 Ebisu and the 11' Iwana. Since you say you prefer a slightly slower rod, and the fish you expect to catch will be up to 16", I think you would not be as happy with the Yamame, which is the rod I would have suggested if you liked a faster rod and would be catching fish OVER 16". With the Iwana, you'll have your hands full with a 16" fish (my best is 17" and I was not at all sure I was going to get it into the net). Also, it is a soft enough rod that you will miss some hooksets while nymphing. On the plus side, it is light as a feather, a joy to fish with, and makes a 9" stocker in current a serious fish indeed. The decision on 11' or 12' depends on the streams you'll fish. I wanted the shorter one for brookie streams, but most of my fishing is on streams where I have room for a 12' rod (most everyone I see there fishes 7 or 7 1/2') and I find that I have missed that extra foot more often than not. You get used to the long rod, and what it can do, fairly quickly and you don't want to give that up. If you choose the Ebisu, I can't really help you with the 5:5 or 6:4 question, as I have not fished the 6:4. Because of their length, both will be slower than the rods you are used to. I can say I have never wished I had the 6:4, as I am very happy with the 5:5. Daniel Galhardo of TenkaraUSA says there is not THAT much difference between the two. (There is a big difference between the 5:5 Ebisu and the 7:3 Yamame, though, and a very noticeable difference between the Ebisu and the 11' Iwana.)

Mike,

I'm sure you are correct that the action of the rod (5:5, 6:4, 7:3, etc) should not be chosen based on size of the fish to be caught, but within the Tenkara USA line the Yamame rod (which was initially described as a 6:4, later recharacterized as 7:3) is a much beefier rod than the Ebisu 6:4, and the Ebisu 5:5 is a noticeably beefier rod than the Iwana 5:5. Having fished all three models, I think the Yamame would handle bigger fish than the Iwana, but the Iwana is much more fun for catching smaller fish. The only model that has a choice of actions is the Ebisu.

[skunkaroo]

CM,

You're a few hours late with advice I'm afraid. I just took delivery of the 6:4 Ebisu today. I've done no more than flick it a few times out in the back yard, but it seems quite nice--a moderate-fast rod by modern measures. It certainly seems to have the backbone in the lower sections to handle a larger fish (the term "large" being relative here), but I'll have to catch one to find out.

I knew the canopy issues would be a concern on some sections of my stream, but I believe the increase in control/presentation of the flies will more than compensate. I also noted that the short line made parallel casts both easy and accurate, so provided the stream width is there the canopy issue might be moot.

I'll let you know about my progress,

Aaron

PS I only wished the arrived on Friday as I managed a trip to one of my favourite streams yesterday...


(Alas, not on the soft hackle, but the river has only just opened)

[CM_Stewart]

skunkaroo, the canopy issue really isn't moot, even if you can use parallel casts to stay under it. I have found that it is very easy to bring in a fish if you raise the rod overhead and vertical, keeping the fish on the surface, and very hard to bring in a fish if you have to keep the rod parallel to the surface because of overhead branches. Where I fish it is not uncommon to have to wade a ways one way or the other to find a spot where I can raise the rod to bring in a fish. Even with that limitation, I will not go back to a shorter rod.

[skunkaroo]

skunkaroo, the canopy issue really isn't moot, even if you can use parallel casts to stay under it. I have found that it is very easy to bring in a fish if you raise the rod overhead and vertical, keeping the fish on the surface, and very hard to bring in a fish if you have to keep the rod parallel to the surface because of overhead branches.

Good point. I've obviously got a bit to learn here... but I'm looking forward to it.

Aaron

[skunkaroo]

A Tenkara virgin no longer! While it's only a little coho fry, it was the first tenkara caught fish and deserved a quick photo:



This was my first opportunity to try out the 12' Ebisu 6:4 and I can say without a doubt it is a pleasure to use and a fish catching machine. I fished both nymphs and a beaded soft hackles off a 3' 5x leader. Presentation really is a snap with this rod and provided you have clearance it is easy to guide the flies through even the most difficult lies. I will have to learn the trick of casting the line in tight quarters--I lost two flies after overshooting the mark and landing them in bankside thorn bushes. Aside from this one issue I know I'm going to love using this rod. It is amazingly sensitive and made the small fish a real joy to play. I'm pretty sure that based on its performance today that it will be able to handle larger fish (but we shall see ).

Today I went on to catch a dozen or more fish up to 10" in the space of about 40 minutes in water I would normally be happy to catch 3 or 4. While many of them were quite small, they were all quite fun to catch.

Aaron

[CM_Stewart]

I went on to catch a dozen or more fish up to 10" ... in water I would normally be happy to catch 3 or 4.

Woohoo!

That pretty much matches my experiences with a tenkara rod. I am convinced that the improved presentation more than makes up for the reduced casting distance.