Leader length ...?

Moderators: William Anderson, letumgo

Leader length ...?

Postby hankaye » Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:47 pm

Howdy All;

I realize that this is a muddy stream meaning, everyone has an opinion
and ya'll can feel free to express any and all thoughts ya might have on the matter.
I finished reading Phip Storey's "Year of the Spider", interesting book and nice format,
kind of like a journal with expanded notes and comments for the days fishing.
What I found interesting were the leaders that he mentioned using several times in
the text. Generally he was using 4' of 8# line tied to 2" of 4# line. Another time he was
using 4' of 16# to 2' of 8# then 2' of 4#. I'm relying on my memory so the length measurements
are perhaps off a tad ... :roll: , but ya'll get the idea, ... ya do ... right? :?
He didn't mention what length rod nor what weight, I believe ... :? ... So I figure for the
sake of argument, an 8'6" 5 wt.
Has anyone tried something like this :?: , how well did it work, or not ... what else
have any of ya'll tried :?: , what do most of ya'll use for everyday and why (other than
"It works"), would be appreciated.
Striving for a less complicated life since 1949...
User avatar
hankaye
 
Posts: 5709
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:59 pm
Location: Arrey, N.M. aka 32°52'37.63"N, 107°18'54.18"W

Re: Leader length ...?

Postby Mataura mayfly » Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:00 pm

Howdy Hank.
"Can of worms" time.........

This is just about as individualistic as the leader to line connection method and you will get just as many answers for each.
My rule of thumb- leader butt's should suit the fly line thickness for transition of turn over, length should suit the rod and the conditions (there goes the major "variation" factor) and if you need to lengthen a leader- do so at the butt end, not extending the tippet by several feet (unless you are stepping down tippet sizes).

Basically, the examples you give (in my mind) are pretty simple tapered leaders, No.1 is for a small rod (light line weight) small stream set up and No.2 is for a bigger (heavier line) rod and bigger water.

There are LOTS of leader equations and recipe out there, you have to decide on trial and error which suits you best for any given condition. Material choice, built and knotted- or factory tapered are all other variables, as are water and weather conditions, not to mention are you trying to present a tiny dry fly in gin clear water- or bottom bouncing tungsten bead nymphs?

Be interesting to see what your "can of worms" holds at the end of the thread. ;)
"Listen to the sound of the river and you will get a trout".... Irish proverb.
Mataura mayfly
 
Posts: 3648
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:28 am
Location: Southland, South Island, New Zealand.

Re: Leader length ...?

Postby hankaye » Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:33 pm

Mataura mayfly, Howdy;

Jeff, thanks for the reminder of the scads of formuli that are out there ...
I like your Rule of thumb ... "My rule of thumb- leader butt's should suit the
fly line thickness for transition of turn over, length should suit the rod and
the conditions (there goes the major "variation" factor) and if you need to
lengthen a leader- do so at the butt end, not extending the tippet by several
feet (unless you are stepping down tippet sizes)."
I'm mainly looking to find something that will suit the wee rod (FF-535), that
was gifted to me by Mr. Ed last May. Being so short (5' 3") and a 5-6 wt. it's
almost counter intuitive wouldn't you think?
Has anyone some experience with a wee bitty rod ?????

hank
Striving for a less complicated life since 1949...
User avatar
hankaye
 
Posts: 5709
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:59 pm
Location: Arrey, N.M. aka 32°52'37.63"N, 107°18'54.18"W

Re: Leader length ...?

Postby Mataura mayfly » Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:24 am

Hank,
Guess it depends a bit on where you intend to fish it and how you intend to fish it, the type of flies you are likely to be using (weight) and such. You might like one of the furled 7' leaders made from UNI thread on that short rod, with a couple (up to 4'?) of terminal tippet material at the end.
I fish a lovely 6 1/2" cane rod with a 9' leader, but your conditions might not favour that much length.
Hard for me to advise from afar. I have tended toward (over the last couple of seasons) to "roll my own" leaders, knotting various lengths and weights of nylon mono to a desired length and adding the sacrificial tippet of choice. This requires a fairly extensive selection of various grades (breaking strain/thickness) of nylon spools that might not be everyones cup of tea. There is nothing wrong with most reputable name factory tapered leaders, have a look and see if you can pick up some shorter than 9' that taper down to 4X and try them as a starting point. It is just less complicated and cheaper to start like that than to build up your own.
For me, I like to carry a small spool of 20-25lb mono in my vest and blood knot sections of that to the butt end of my leader if I need to lengthen in the field. In my opinion, 16lb might be a little light for a #5 weight line and I am usually fishing #5-7 weight gear here. If using a factory tapered leader, the butt end "add on" should be the same thickness or slightly thicker than the butt section of the factory leader.

Hank, this is all just how I do it- others opinion may differ and after a bit of time with said rod, your own opinion may differ, but it gives you somewhere to start. ;)
"Listen to the sound of the river and you will get a trout".... Irish proverb.
Mataura mayfly
 
Posts: 3648
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:28 am
Location: Southland, South Island, New Zealand.

Re: Leader length ...?

Postby Eric Peper » Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:29 am

hankaye wrote:Has anyone some experience with a wee bitty rod ?????

hank


I have a little Orvis 5'9" bamboo that I fish occasionally. It's a 4 weight that will handle a 9' leader and small flies quite comfortably. Anything longer than 9' seems a bit of a chore to turn over even on short casts. The little rod will handle surprisingly long casts, but a really long leader is simply not a practical thing on a rod that short.

I no longer tie my own leaders because the vast majority of my fishing is on weedy spring creek-type water, and the leader knots are magnets for picking up all variety of floating detritus.

For the longer rods I normally use (8'-9', 4 and 5 weights) my favorite leaders of late are TroutHunter's Finesse models (usually 9' tapered to 5X), which are characterized by relatively finer and softer (than normally prescribed) butt sections. These I join with a blood knot to 1.5'-2' of .017 Maxima, which is nail knotted to the fly line, and then add about 4' or so of 5X or 6X tippet, making an overall leader of 14-15'. I've been using this setup for the past 2-3 years and have no complaints on turnover or overall performance.

I tie a loop in the end of the basic leader and add the tippet with a clinch knot tied to the loop. The prevents attrition of the leader each time a tippet is changed.

Eric
A mountain is a fact -- a trout is a moment of beauty known only to men who seek them.
Al McClane in his Introduction to The Practical Fly Fisherman . . . often erroneously attributed to Arnold Gingrich
User avatar
Eric Peper
 
Posts: 244
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:28 pm
Location: Austin, TX and Island Park, ID

Re: Leader length ...?

Postby hankaye » Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:14 am

Howdy All;

My areas of Trout fishing are going to be mostly in the Gila National Forest.
Target = Gila trout; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wTltt3a-Ok
Short range, tiny terrestrials and nymphs and the occasional ??dry?? :? I
most likely would only be using a few inches of line in front of the tip and the rest
would be leader in some areas.
Not all is as enclosed as Iron Creek, some other areas are more easily accessed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1HqqLrNQ9k
But all in all some nice small rod water :)
Now ya'll can see why I am building my mini camper, these places are about a
5 hour drive one way, Iron Creek, mostly at 25 mph on forest service roads
and Black Canyon a 2.5 to 3 hour drive again, a lot of FS roads.

Thanks for the inputs and please keep on sendin' them cards an letters folks.

hank
Striving for a less complicated life since 1949...
User avatar
hankaye
 
Posts: 5709
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:59 pm
Location: Arrey, N.M. aka 32°52'37.63"N, 107°18'54.18"W

Re: Leader length ...?

Postby Eric Peper » Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:44 am

This'll probably sound crazy, Hank, but for what you describe, I'd get a 7.5' mono leader of your choice and cut about 18" (maybe even 24") off the butt end. I would blood knot this to a short (12") section of .015 or .017 Maxima that you have nail knotted to the end of the fly line. Tie a loop in the fine end of the leader and clinch knot a tippet to it. For the kind of fishing you describe, I'd keep the tippet to 3' or less.

Just a thought.

Eric
A mountain is a fact -- a trout is a moment of beauty known only to men who seek them.
Al McClane in his Introduction to The Practical Fly Fisherman . . . often erroneously attributed to Arnold Gingrich
User avatar
Eric Peper
 
Posts: 244
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:28 pm
Location: Austin, TX and Island Park, ID

Re: Leader length ...?

Postby hankaye » Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:42 pm

Eric, Howdy;

Live my life and not much sounds nor looks crazy ... :? , :lol:

I'll see what I can scratch together and try it out. Sounds like it has 'promise'. ;)

Thanks,

hank
Striving for a less complicated life since 1949...
User avatar
hankaye
 
Posts: 5709
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:59 pm
Location: Arrey, N.M. aka 32°52'37.63"N, 107°18'54.18"W

Re: Leader length ...?

Postby Mataura mayfly » Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:46 pm

Don't Orvis do short leaders? Some 6' and a couple 7.5'?
They might be a good starting point?

Most hand tied leaders work to a 60-20-20% ratio, Eric's suggestion is a wee bit different- but I can see it working- some good advice there for you from a lot more experience than I can call on. ;)
"Listen to the sound of the river and you will get a trout".... Irish proverb.
Mataura mayfly
 
Posts: 3648
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:28 am
Location: Southland, South Island, New Zealand.

Re: Leader length ...?

Postby hankaye » Sat Sep 13, 2014 3:10 pm

Mataura mayfly, Howdy;

That's the ratio I was trying to recall. :D , 8-) !
My thought was to try an approximate 16#, 8#, 4#,
designed around the rod's length of 5'3", roughly
37.75" to 12.5" to 12.5".
Eric's method with the knotless and the addition of the Maxima
sounds like it is almost the same. May have to invest in a leader gage
to see how this all works out ...
Don't let this revelation deter the rest of you from expressing your thought
and ideas, also some real life experience is always appreciated.

hank
Striving for a less complicated life since 1949...
User avatar
hankaye
 
Posts: 5709
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:59 pm
Location: Arrey, N.M. aka 32°52'37.63"N, 107°18'54.18"W

Next

Return to Fishing Wingless Wets

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest