Upstream Wet Fly

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Fishnkilts
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Re: Upstream Wet Fly

Post by Fishnkilts » Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:56 pm

As a child, my grandfather taught me to fish the wet flies upstream, just like Oliver does, with twice the rod length of line out of the tip.
I have fished both styles, upstream and swinging downstream. After years of doing so, I have come to the conclusion from my own experience that:
1. You will catch fish using both techniques.
2. I have lost way more fish swinging flies.
3. I have more fun fishing upstream, (just personal preference).
4. I believe I have better line control fishing upstream.
5. Better hook sets fishing upstream than I do downstream. I do believe in that theory due to the amount of fish I lose hooking them downstream.

In the fast moving freestone rivers and creeks I fish, I will always fish wets upstream. I have found that if I can keep the fish up from me, which is easier said than done, I can bring them to my hand. Once they get below me, then I'm not only fighting the fish, but the current as well. And so now the odds are in favor of the fish unless I can turn them towards the bank.
In slower moving water I prefer casting upstream at a 45deg. angle and letting the fly just pass me by a few feet, then cast back up again. But I will swing the flies in this type of water too, just not very often.

Now in all fairness, I have not listened to Mr. Wotton, so I thank you for the link. I have heard good things about him, but I never could find much on him.
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letumgo
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Re: Upstream Wet Fly

Post by letumgo » Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:32 pm

After listening to the podcast above (https://wetflyswing.com/wet-flies-with-davy-wotton/) I needed to tie up some of Davy Wotton's three fly cast leaders. I needed to listen to the description many times to understand the construction. I've drawn a diagram of the leader, based on Davy's description:

DAVY WOTTON LEADER FORMULA

BUTT SECTION
  • 3 Feet of 20 Lb Test Clear Amnesia
  • 2 Feet of 15 Lb Test Clear Amnesia
  • 1 Foot of 10 Lb Test Clear Amnesia
LEADER/DROPPER SECTION: Tyed with 4 pound or 6 pound mono.
  • 18 to 24 Inches of 4 Lb mono
  • 25 to 30 Inches of 4 Lb mono
  • 25 to 30 Inches of 4 Lb mono
At one point Davy mentions that the leader segments should be equal lengths.

DROPPER LENGTHS:
  • Top Dropper (first fly) = 5 to 6 inches long (minimum)
  • Middle Dropper (second fly) = 4 to 5 inches long (minimum)
  • Point Fly (tail fly at far end/tip of leader)
Image
Image

I made up a few leaders this afternoon. Looking forward to testing them out this spring.
Ray (letumgo)----<°))))))><
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"The world is perfect. Appreciate the details." - Dean
Fishnkilts
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Location: Colorado

Re: Upstream Wet Fly

Post by Fishnkilts » Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:26 am

letumgo wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:32 pm After listening to the podcast above (https://wetflyswing.com/wet-flies-with-davy-wotton/) I needed to tie up some of Davy Wotton's three fly cast leaders. I needed to listen to the description many times to understand the construction. I've drawn a diagram of the leader, based on Davy's description:

DAVY WOTTON LEADER FORMULA

BUTT SECTION
  • 3 Feet of 20 Lb Test Clear Amnesia
  • 2 Feet of 15 Lb Test Clear Amnesia
  • 1 Foot of 10 Lb Test Clear Amnesia
LEADER/DROPPER SECTION: Tyed with 4 pound or 6 pound mono.
  • 18 to 24 Inches of 4 Lb mono
  • 25 to 30 Inches of 4 Lb mono
  • 25 to 30 Inches of 4 Lb mono
At one point Davy mentions that the leader segments should be equal lengths.

DROPPER LENGTHS:
  • Top Dropper (first fly) = 5 to 6 inches long (minimum)
  • Middle Dropper (second fly) = 4 to 5 inches long (minimum)
  • Point Fly (tail fly at far end/tip of leader)
Image
Image

I made up a few leaders this afternoon. Looking forward to testing them out this spring.
A huge THANK YOU for doing this.
Mike62
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Location: Northern Maine

Re: Upstream Wet Fly

Post by Mike62 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:37 am

The leaders are nice, but I think you should frame that diagram and hang it on the wall over your bench. I love the little rod down in the lower left-hand corner!

Upstream v. downstream; I don't seem to have a lot of emotional investment in either discipline. I practice both on a regular basis, happily. I've never been interested in quantifying my catch rates so I couldn't say which direction works out better for me; I hate numbers! (maybe that's why I'm a farmer) Up or down -they're different animals.

I picked up a good copy of Lawton's 'The Upstream Wet Fly' a while back and I really enjoyed all the historical perspectives in it.
DUBBN
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Re: Upstream Wet Fly

Post by DUBBN » Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:13 am

In my opinion, Wotton has over thunk the leader system. Yep, "thunk" is my new word.
ronr
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Re: Did anyone listen to the most recent Wet Fly Swing podcast interviewing Davy Wotton?

Post by ronr » Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:28 pm

bocast wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:31 am https://wetflyswing.com/wet-flies-with-davy-wotton/

I thought it was a very informative podcast for those looking into fishing wets. Davy Wotton and this forum were my teachers in wet fly fishing. I'm curious as to whether the hordes buying ten foot or eleven foot 3 and 4 wt "euro-nymphing" rods ever stop to apply those rods to deliver a cast of 3 wet flies. That would boost the ranks of wet fly fishers.
bocast I've been using a Cortland 10'6" 3wt Competition nymphing rod for a few years now and almost exclusively swing soft hackles with it. I will use one, two, and three fly setups and find Wotton's 20" separation to be a good guide for placing the droppers. I will use the same rod to tight line nymph or even fish dries when absolutely necessary, but I have plenty of action swinging soft hackles except in the middle of winter. But, at times, if fish are rising to a small hatch in winter a swung soft hackle fished as a dry will do the trick.
DUBBN
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Re: Did anyone listen to the most recent Wet Fly Swing podcast interviewing Davy Wotton?

Post by DUBBN » Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:50 pm

bocast wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:31 am https://wetflyswing.com/wet-flies-with-davy-wotton/



bocast I've been using a Cortland 10'6" 3wt
I had that rod. Its an 8 piece
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letumgo
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Re: Upstream Wet Fly

Post by letumgo » Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:54 pm

Wayne - I’d be interested in hearing your leader setup.

I just finished making up a half dozen of Davy’s leader setups, complete with droppers. I’m looking forward to tangling them all up this spring. :o :? :D :lol:
Ray (letumgo)----<°))))))><
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wsbailey
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Re: Upstream Wet Fly

Post by wsbailey » Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:14 pm

Ray, that diagram is definitely worthy of a frame. I like all the extra details which give it an artistic quality. This video shows an easy two fly set up for the less ambitious.

https://youtu.be/NjD84YfmKLs
DUBBN
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Re: Upstream Wet Fly

Post by DUBBN » Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:17 pm

letumgo wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:54 pm Wayne - I’d be interested in hearing your leader setup.

I just finished making up a half dozen of Davy’s leader setups, complete with droppers. I’m looking forward to tangling them all up this spring. :o :? :D :lol:
Honest? For designated upstream fishing of wets, I believe tags are counter productive. No matter how stiff the tag material is, it is going to swing in to the main leader. It will be observed by the trout as if it is a rig where the flies are tied inline. The leader tyed to the bend of the hook.

The downside of wottens system is, you are giving the trout twice as many leaders and lines to look at. Three times the chances of tangles.

I find no upscale to wottens system .

I have been in the minority before as how I view many techniques.

BTW. I find the wotten knot to be silly as well. Poor breaking strength, and easy to tie wrong.
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