Wax problem

[gingerdun]

OK, my inexperience is going to become obvious in this post, so this is a little embarrassing.
In Danbury I acquired a chunk of winter wax thanks to the kindness of John Shaner.
Prior to this, after trying various waxes, I had settled into using pure beeswax that my father had in his kit, which is not very sticky, but makes the silk thread more workable. I also use it when spinning bodies on the Clark block.
When I tried the sticky winter wax last night, once it caused so much friction when I was tightening a whip finish that the thread broke, leaving a small loop of thread hanging over the eye. I suppose with practice I could refine my whip finish technique to avoid this, but then I'm not convinced that the stickier wax is really necessary when the beeswax had been working so well for me. True, it doesn't stick to the hook, but so long as I keep tension on the thread, that doesn't seem to be necessary. Am I the only person who likes beeswax? Am I missing something obvious here?

Lance

[Mataura mayfly]

One breakage...... out of how many flies Lance?
One break might be hard to explain, could have been a small "fault" in the thread that coincided with the whip finish. How old was the silk?
In my limited wax experience I have had similar breaks with too much wax on the silk and friction burn (as you suggest) causing thread breakage at the whip finish stage. Pulling the tail through slowly and then cinch down the knot with finger and thumb. The short distance the thread is pulled under real tension does not allow for the burn to sever the thread. Hans' videos often show him doing this to tighten the whip.

On a side note: I like using a paste wax designed as a leather boot dressing. Almost liquid and fairly sticky on application it holds dubbing well, does not restrict the thread from twisting or make it "hard", absorbs fully into the thread and dries well to hold the twist in the thread once removed from the card. Might take a little longer to dry, but I usually leave mine overnight at least before tying.

[William Anderson]

Lance, the consistency of the waxes is a broad topic, so it's not surprising at all that you would have an adjustment period with a tackier wax. I've been using a softer wax than most when making the spun bodies. A blend of a wax from one of my first attempts years ago that came out much too soft, and some Shuck Wax which is perfect for most applications. The silk actually cuts through the wax ball and if I hesitate on the second and third pass the wax will grip and snap the silk. That's just trying to get the silk waxed for the spun bodies, much less the whip finish. I know I've had similar issues and it just takes some time. I have found the slower steady pull to secure the whip finish is best, but like the other instance...a hesitation will cause a break just when you need it the least.

This is probably sacrilege, but as often as not, half the time, I'm using 14/0 as my tying silk, mounting the hackle and tail/rib if needed, and tying in the spun body with the 14/0 and tying off the spun body at the thorax, leaving the rest of the hackle and whip finish to be completed with the finer thread. It's not the traditional way of tying the flymphs, but it works for me. That doesn't address your issue in the least, more like avoiding it all together. Sorry.

Maybe Jim will weigh in with his Keene wax techniques. I'd be interested to hear his take on this issue.

I wish we had that emoticon of the guy watching and eating popcorn...waiting to hear how this thread plays out. I'm very curious to hear other's opinions on this question.

w

[letumgo]

Lance - I have used a wide variety of waxes (bees wax, paraffin wax, cobblers waxes, liquid wax, assorted dubbing waxes ranging from lightly tacky, to goopy/sticky). Bees wax is a nice choice, due to its easy workability, and its ready availability. I have not tried the "winter wax" you mentioned, so I can not give my opinion. Keep in mind that this wax may need to be warmed in your hand, before using it. Some waxes are not very workable in the cold state. If this wax has a lot of resin, it will be quite firm when it is cold. The resin will tend to create greater grip, but makes wax blends more difficult to work with. The workability of some waxes improves with use. In other words, the more you handle and use a piece of wax, it become softer and easier to work with. I believe handling the wax mixes in some natural oils from your hands, which progressively softens the wax.

I have some Leisenring wax, which is very hard when you first use it (high resin content). It requires a lot of warming to make it workable. Sometimes I will make a hot cup of tea, and warm my hands on it, to then warm the wax until it is workable. I keep a small piece of the wax on the side of my index finger, to keep it warm & pliable.

The best wax I have ever used was made by our friend Bill Shuck. His cobblers wax blend is soft, easy to work with even when cold. "Shuck Wax" has become my favorite wax, for most applications. Bill Bailey (wsbailey) sells a tying wax which is very close. He sells a range of different waxes.

There are some techniques which benefit from a wax with greater tackiness, but not many in my opinion.

Anyway, bees wax is a nice wax for forming dubbing brushes, but don't give up on the winter wax. You may just need to learn how to work with it. All part of the fun of fly tying.

EDIT - ADDING OTHER SOURCES OF TYING WAX:
http://www.feathersmc.com/products/Cobblers%20Wax
http://www.jimsflyco.com/wax/jimsflyco- ... tying-wax/
http://greatfeathers.com/materials/ceme ... r-wax.aspx

[gingerdun]

Thanks for the advice. I do get a little impatient and don't always take enough time to warm the wax.
The breakage problem has not occurred again, so I think it may have been a fluke with the thread, as Jeff suggested. I tend to jump to conclusions. I'm actually getting to like the wax now that I have used it more. Not too tacky, but just enough. I like how the dubbing tends to adhere lightly to it, while still being easy to move around on the block.

Lance

[narcodog]

Wax, one of my favorite subjects. As I have stated in the past I have about 15 different waxes. My fav is Wonder Wax that I use when ever wax my thread which is every time. That being said I have some waxes that I consider specialty waxes. BT's for touch dubbing, rockworms' for whip finishing silk and Bill Bailey's that comes in a tin. I use this wax for my dubbing loops, knee method. Once you warm it the material sticks like glue once you put the twist to it. I found out by accident on the adhesion property's of Bill's wax by accident. I have a little of overhang at my waist so I suck a small piece in there, in just a few minuets I went to wax the silk and it was stuck to my tee shirt. now I use it quite often.

Everywhere I go I look for wax, it's just something I do. I use it all at different times so it does not go to waste.

[letumgo]

I've always wanted to try Wonder Wax, but it is as rare as hens teeth. I'm just too cheap to buy it off eBay. The stuff is crazy expensive.

Mark Libertone uses a cool wax called Rainbow wax, which came in a small lipstick tube. Ideal container for working on small flies.

[Ron Eagle Elk]

Lately I've been using Bill Bailey's white and cobblers wax when I'm waxing my silk to tie, and the wax in a tin, also made by Bill, that Narco refered to is also getting to be a fast favorite.

[Old Hat]

I just received the "Summer wax" and the "Winter wax" which I am assuming is the same that you are using Lance. The winter wax is a little softer than I am used to. I found a little goes a long way. I pull off a small ball (about half a bb size) and wax a strand of the thread. I run it down the thread then work it in with a couple more runs with just warm fingers. I like it, and it works well for me as a touch dubbing wax too. No problems with breakage.

[gingerdun]

This winter wax is gummy and comes off on my fingers, making a sticky mess. Impossible to make a little pellet of it since it sticks to everything like tar. I'm going to try some of the other waxes mentioned here.
Lance