Hen Hackles and their fishability

[UC Steve]

Dubbin, of course hen hackle does require floatant to work well on dries, as does the best quality dryfly hackle. I like to use hen on some dries as well, as it splays on the water, which serves to give the imitation a more realistic profile, rather than holding the fly up by the hackle tips against the surface tension as with rooster hackle. The reason tiers say they prefer hen hackle as soft hackle for dries is: the stiffer spine of hen hackle barbs will take floatant & return to original placement with a couple false casts, while if you apply liquid floatant to game bird hackle it tends to plaster against the body & stay there, as the hackle has almost no spring; & also, the water absorbing microbarbs of hen are much smaller than on gamebirds, so they don't absorb water as quickly & dry better on false-casts.. So yeah, hen does float better, in my own experience. Doesn't float better than dryfly hackle, but it does float better than game bird hackle.

On your point about the hackle becoming the body: If the fly is heavily hackled, the hackle will become the body. For example, the old Carey Special with its two pheasant rump feathers as a collar & trained back against the body is one of the patterns in which the hackle is intended to contribute body color, as well as legs & body movement, yet if you tie a Carey with one hackle, stripped on one side, as some do nowadays, the hackle as body color takes on a minor role, & the collar becomes legs/movement, primarily.

Nothing in a fly design is an either/or proposition. Fancy is ever the guide, everything else considered.

[DUBBN]

I suppose I am a bit perplexed. I think we are in agreement on most points, but I cant prove it. In any event, I like the hen hackle, but do not consider it dry fly hackle. Perhaps in a future life I will do batter at picking up the finer points of fly fishing and tying.

Welcome to the forum. i look forward to reading more of your insights.

[UC Steve]

Thanks for the welcome, Dubbin. If you like to tie & fish soft-hackle flies, then I guess we are in total agreement about everything that matters on the subject. I'm a perpetual student & that is fun, I don't need to be right or have people agree with me. And please, don't worry about "proof" when you're writing to a comment from me. I view this as an informal, anecdotal, discussion of bait, after all. Proving every point would be tedious & take the fun out of it amigo.

[Smuggler]

There are rare instances that I know color is the primary trigger for a pattern. That being said, if I am right, and the hen hackle collapses around my patterns, then the color of the hackle becomes the primary color of the pattern.

This, I think is key. Wayne, you bring up a good point here when stating this and I too believe what you're saying here.

Izaak, great topic and good questions. I really don't have any answers for you as I don't tie with hen very often, but I'll add to the topic.I find hen to be for the majority, monotone. I like color variegation in my collars to represent what you said, legs, antennae etc. Now I do own hen necks, quite a few actually (probably way too many) but 90% of them are multi-colored. Grizzles, variants, uniques. Just makes more sense to me.

[William Anderson]

Tom, I wanted to comment on your questions when you first posted this topic, I hope it runs on for some time because there are no doubt lots of folks who can take a different approach and I would love to hear them all. I have not read all the posts that come after your initial post, I just wanted a clean slate, which might be regrettable after I hit submit...but so be it.

We all know that game birds such as partridge, grouse, woodcock, etc., and other birds such as the ubiquitous starling, provide us with hackles of just the right colors and markings such that we are able to tie flies that give the impression of real insects. The hackle barbs, compared to hen hackles, are wider and more substantial, and as we wind them around the hook shank we can't help but see how easily they begin to imitate legs, antennae, and wings of the natural.

Imagining the action of these barbs in drift is one of the most compelling aspects of tying and is probably the strongest factor that drew me toward these flies in my earliest days. Three flies seized my imagination immediately and have informed my fly design process since. The simple action of the P&O, the even more seductive Stewart (Baillie) flies, and a design by Jim Slattery called the Pop-Top Flymph. (Hans' site is down so I'll try later to show you this one if you haven't seen it). It's a hen hackle palmered through the thorax, approximating legs and wings and action in a way I had not seen before.

With hen hackle, however, due to the fineness of the barbs, we can't get quite the same effect. Granted, some hackles like grizzly or Coq de Leon, have markings on them that give a more natural or lifelike appearance and complex coloration, versus a monochromatic brown or dun color for example. So what is the best way to approach tying wet flies with hen hackle in order to best give the impression of a natural insect, it's legs, wings, antennae and such, in its various stages of life? What should we be looking for when selecting hen capes in terms of color and marking? And what should we be considering when we wrap them as hackle, specifically, what thickness or thinness of hackling, is ideal? I realize some consideration should be given to the fishing conditions, smooth or broken water surface, for example, but in general, what is ideal, too little, too much? Again, the goal here is to best imitate the natural without overdoing it or underdoing it.

I have several capes that as you say, show finer barbs and less visual impact as well as decreased mobility when compared to game hackles. I could pile this post with pics that show hen capes with barbs as full/webby as many game hackles and with markings that rival partridge, grouse or woodcock. They are not the Whiting variety and you have to select them carefully, but they are out there. Some tiers make exceptional use of the finer Whiting hen hackles, I seem to struggle with these in my effort to produce the desired amount of action and vitality. I will continue to work on my deficiencies. It's usually the less expensive capes (not the cheapest) which find the balance of webbiness and mobility, length, marking and color. It's really a reflection of the desired effect.

What is the best way to approach...this is a question that deserves it's own thread (as several other questions listed here do as well). At times the overall construction can dictate the manner in which the hackle is selected and applied, balancing a more robust body with a more substantial hackle. Consider as you mention your intended imitation; burrower, clinger, swimmer, drown dun, cripple, spinner, emerging caddis, diving caddis, etc. Each should conjure a specific action in the natural as well as your intended presentation for your imitation; dead drift, induced rise, suspension or subsurface presentation. I anticipate the action of the imitation to create the near equivalent of the action expected from...six legs, two/four/long mangled wings, antennae. Vaguely equal. I picture an elegant and sparse NCS (8-12 barbs?). I'm not actually counting, but looking for a similar impression. Seriously considering the hackle's position, length and mobility to the nature of the specific insect being imitated. At times.

On the other hand, and I hold both approaches as equally true, patterns can be especially generic, fished in a manner to represent any of the above conditions. Happily these generic soft-hackles tend to match flies designed using the above approach. It's still a question of profile, action, texture, size, shade, mottling, etc. I contently tie small, drab patterns focusing on their presentation without regard to hatches. I have both, hatch matching suggestive imitations, and vaguely impressionistic bugs that will perform in a number of ways when asked to do so. And they may the same fly. A longer grey/brown fuzzy soft hackle having a hen hackle wrapped in four turns through the thorax will perform perfectly as an accurate imitation to a particular species, and will just as effectively provide the needed vitality of any irresistible food item as it's hackles move, take on a hydrofuge or present in or below the surface. The flies I enjoy most use the hackle to approximate the level of action found in the natural. Is that two turns or three, it depends. If action is the goal, is more action a better trigger, even if it surpasses that of the natural? I wouldn't claim to know, but I take more pride in fooling trout by approximating the naturals behavior and expression. What's the best hackling approach? For me it just imagining the drift.

Just as an example, say you want to imitate emerging or drowned blue winged olives. What would your ideal choice of hackle be as far as it's color and markings, or lack thereof? And what are you focusing on when you wrap the hackle? Are you trying to give an impression of the wings, legs, or something else? I wonder if we were to approach tying flies in this more analytical way if we would end up with flies that look different from those we crank out easily just out of habit or by simply sticking to a proven pattern. Sylvester Nemes comes to mind. No one I know of was more focused, or obsessed, with soft hackled flies than he, and he was very analytical in his approach, creating patterns to imitate specific insects, even writing an entire book on tying flies to imitate spinners. Maybe I should just go reread his books! Anyway, I would like to begin a conversation about this if anyone else is interested.

Imagining a drowned blue winged olive. A drown dun, full wing length and no control over leg movement. A tumbled yet recognizable profile and size. I would be looking for a very soft, webby medium to light dun hen, could be a couple wraps as a standard collar, or better yet, palmered a bit to insure micro currents could move barbs in opposite directions in a dead drift. An upstream approach or at least closely followed to avoid drag as it moves through seams where immobile bugs pass. For me, size and very mobile, longer hackles seem the key. I often fish a NCS style fly in this way, and I enjoy the idea of presenting a pattern as a drowned dun. I won't pretend it's actually that accurate. The fly is the right size and moves like a food item. I am happy with that.

I will take issue regarding Nemes as leading the crowd in terms of specificity in hackle selection and rigorous study of the naturals. He gets high marks from me for his enthusiasm, his love of the soft-hackled flies and his desire to share his new found passion. I'm a fan of his work, no doubt, and what he has to offer is informative and inspiring. But there were a host of individuals dedicated to the narrow focus of soft-hackles and related entomology. His third book, Imitations gets it right for me, as he explores well beyond the pleasure of fishing a handful of Partridge NCS, and seriously considers fly design and presentation in a broader context. But even with this achievement, he measures up to, but not beyond a long list of fly fisherman who were intense with their study and documentation of hackle markings and mobility. This is why I love the history of these flies. We don't have to choose one author over another...we have them all. The lineage of the investigation continues now, and we get to appreciate all of it. Especially here.

Now to read the rest of this thread. Maybe tomorrow. It's getting late.

w

[FliTrap]

Hen Hackles.... Let me count the ways....
Top to bottom.... bottom to top... rolling along the bottom...Float them on the top....
Fast water, flat waters, edges and middles, Slips and slides...or send them down a glide.
Rest it... dap it, you might.... tumble across the surface in the currents of the wind... or fly them like a kit!
Fluff them and mat them, slick or spiky....front side, backside, inside out.....
palmel(sp) them forward or back... single raps, or more....for all it matters double hackle them all!
Strip them, drag them, swing them through... brown ones white ones, blacks and grays, too....
Solids and speckles or edged in gold.... fold them or strip one side.... it never get old.... Singles or doubles, oh heck, a brace of more!
Too many to count.... not trying to brag ... each is so different, I just wanted them all!

The FliTrap Way
P.S.
If any have ideas of which tie is best but otherwise lack the time to test...
send one.. send all...
I'll give them a try... with promise of report by early next fall!

[hankaye]

FliTrap, Howdy;

Made my evening
Thanks
hank

[letumgo]

Mine too. Humorous post FliTrap.

[FliTrap]

"fishability"...... The real trick in life is to tie a even doz. of you favorite pattern.... in one hook size.... no variation. You take only those 12 flies, no others allowed... as many lines and rods, reels, and lucky wader socks.... spend a day.... on each of the various rivers you like... then fish it... every which way but loose... On second thought... drop one off the bridge and simply watch it move untethered.... learn it all... until you think you can catch fish with it.... then continue to fish only that fly... in all the ways I noted in last post....
and see how much more you can learn!
I tie flies for my entertainment.... between the trips to the waters... funny how even my patterned flies morph with time... with the changes in light... in time... in drink...(LOL).... yet when I get to the Waters with all the bling I tied... its often a single pattern, that I can fish all day..... if it catches... its the greatest fly today.... if it does not, it was a tough day, to continue my learning.... or I forgot what side the mouth to hold my tongue!
Have fun!
FliTrap
By the way... all the ideas noted have added greatly to my inventory of ideas in tying... great exchanges like this is what keeps me tying and grounded in that the only right answer is to respond to the question asked!

[Izaak]

FliTrap,

That was great! I couldn't help being reminded of the tune Gollum (Lord of the Rings) was singing while he was smacking a fish he had just caught on a rock. "So juicy SWEEEEeeeet!"

Tom