Red Spider Fly Question

[Old Hat]

Thanks Ruard,

I found the Red Spider Fly on page 17 of the online version. What Turton seems to describe to me it is a fore and aft distinction.

Here is a link to the pattern.
https://archive.org/stream/anglersmanua ... 6/mode/2up

[William Anderson]

I'd be curious to learn the insect Turton was attempting to imitate. That might offer some insight.

[Old Hat]

Only real clues here seem to be a March or April hatch. Maybe yellow is the predominant feature?

[JohnP]

In Mike Harding's book "A Guide to North Country Flies and How to Tie Them," he lists a pattern for Turton's Red Spider on page 69:
Thread: Pearsall's Yellow 5
Hook: Down-eyed wet, 12-16
Body: Hare's ear, dubbed thinly
Hackle: Partridge
He says it is a soft hackle version of the March Brown, and the body is all the same shade of hare's ear. Obviously a modification of the original.

[Old Hat]

With the yellow and hares ear dubbing accompanied by the reddish mottled hackle being in Turton's recipe, connected with the months he listed, I would think a March Brown would fit nicely.

[daringduffer]

I have the flu and may be whimsical but my take is that the hare's fur should be "black att the bottom and grey at the top".

dd

[Greenwell]

Although it looks like the solution has been hit upon, what I am sure Turton means is that the body is darker near the tail and lighter at the shoulder. It was a common practice in many of the older patterns to vary the shade of dubbing from tail to shoulder as many natural insects show variation in body color throughout their length. Turton is much easier to read than many of the earlier writers but much of his language is archaic and open to interpretation. For a sample of this, read his pattern for the Whirling Dun and try to figure out what he means! But I get the sense that he would have been fun to fish with........
The Red Spider is so similar to the standard Hackled March Brown pattern that I'm sure that was the insect Turton was trying to suggest. The combination of Brown Partridge, or in this case "Red" Partridge, and Hare's Ear fur dubbed on either yellow or orange silk is almost ubiquitous. My own go-to fly is just this pattern with the addition of a bit of gold wire.
Nemes, in my opinion, took considerable artistic license with the flies he tied for his Two Centuries , and one should be a bit careful in using the book as a reference as to how a certain fly should look. I'm convinced that Syl actually saw few original flies and therefore tied the models in his own style. One example is his interpretation of Lunn's flies, they are totally off the mark. I don't have the time or inclination to cite other examples, which are numerous indeed. Nemes' premise for the book was to show, through printed references, that "soft hackled" flies had been around for over 200 years. And isn't it curious that he didn't include any living writers such as Roger Fogg or Leslie Magee who might have called him out!
Mike Harding, on the other hand, has done a very creditable and sensitive job of showing traditional patterns tied using contemporary materials and methods and he explains the changes he makes and the reasons for making them.

[Old Hat]

I agree John, I find the photo patterns in Nemes' Two Centuries very subjective. This is the main reason why I was uncomfortable with his description. The recipe wasn't too far off, but I don't understand why not just list the description as Turton did?

[FliTrap]

Red Spider Fly:
“For March and April: is made with yellow silk; wing, a red mottled partridge rump feather; body, hare’s ear, dark coloured at bottom and gray at top, twisted around the yellow silk. In summer, for dark waters, yellow dubbing is used. A very good fly, and often wanted”.

Wondering... as its quoted from the book... could it be that he is mixing the two specified areas of hair found on a hare's ear... that being dark colored, course fur towards the bottom of the ear, to be blended into a spiky mixture with the thinner, gray hair from the top end of that same ear!

Just a thought!

FliTrap

[Mataura mayfly]

Red Spider Fly:
“For March and April: is made with yellow silk; wing, a red mottled partridge rump feather; body, hare’s ear, dark coloured at bottom and gray at top, twisted around the yellow silk. In summer, for dark waters, yellow dubbing is used. A very good fly, and often wanted”.

Wondering... as its quoted from the book... could it be that he is mixing the two specified areas of hair found on a hare's ear... that being dark colored, course fur towards the bottom of the ear, to be blended into a spiky mixture with the thinner, gray hair from the top end of that same ear!

Just a thought!

FliTrap

Whichever way FliTrap, it looks like the ears in your photo have already mostly been picked clean!