Red Spider Fly Question

[Old Hat]

In Turton's, The Angler's Manual, 1836. He lists a pattern called the Red Spider Fly in which the pattern includes:

body of yellow silk dubbed with dark hare's ear dubbing on the bottom and light gray on the top

There is no ribbing listed. I am curious how one might approach this or if anyone knows how this was done.

[Old Hat]

I'm not sure if this wording is exact but you get the idea.

[Mataura mayfly]

Just a guess, but if the thread was waxed (or if your careful- not waxed) if the dubbing was touched on once the thread was wrapped to the end of the shank and wrapped back forward in tight touching turns, the hare fur would become trapped both under the thread wraps and between them.
By bottom (dark) and top (light gray) I am guessing abdomen and thorax as the colours change, not top and bottom of the hook shank!

There is early reference to pine pitch or resin being used as we use wax today. This would "glue" the fur to the thread quite well.

Another option is to noodle dub. A lot of old script and dressing plates I have access to have quite heavily dressed bodies on the flies. This could be artistic flair, or how the flies actually were dressed.

[redietz]

By bottom (dark) and top (light gray) I am guessing abdomen and thorax as the colours change, not top and bottom of the hook shank!

Or alternatively, it could mean a layer of dark (dubbed going in one direction) and a layer of light (dubbed in the other) over it.

Carl, if you could get the exact wording, it might make it easier to figure out. When I first read what you wrote, I thought of top and bottom of the shank, but that does seems to pose a problem. I suppose, tying in hand, you could hold a layer of light below the hook, a layer on top, and wrap the thread over them. You could pick out the excess, and I would guess enough would remain to give some color.

[Old Hat]

The only reason I can't confirm the exact wording is it is a quote out of Tuton's book in Nemes' Centuries book. So I would hope it is a correct quote but I can't confirm it.

[Old Hat]

Maybe it is to be read as an "under and over" as opposed to a "bottom and top" . I'm pretty sure the bottom and top wording is correct as I have seen it in other places listing Turton patterns.

[Ruard]

Hi Carl,

8. Red Spider.
Silk: Yellow.
Body: Dark H. E.
Thorax: Light H. E.
Hackle: Red mottled partridge rump feather.

This comes from Turtons list I downloaded from the site of Donald.

Greeting


Ruard

[Old Hat]

Thanks Ruard, So maybe top and bottom is a fore and aft distinction.

I guess with out the book we can't confirm it. Nemes says he lists the patterns directly from the book but only lists a hackle color in place of the hackles that are no longer available. He says this is the only change he made to the patterns. I just copied what he had listed as quoted from Turton's.

[Old Hat]

On Williams's site he has copied down the recipes from this book. He copied


Red Spider Fly:
Wings and Legs: red mottled Partridge rump feather
Body: hare’s ear, dark colored at bottom and grey at top
Silk: yellow
Note: in summer, for dark water, yellow dubbing is used. a very good fly, and often wanted.

[Ruard]

Hi Carl,

http://www.archive.org/search.php?query ... l%20turton

This is a link to the book of Turton.

Red spider is on page 30

Greeting