FLYMPH FORUM

During a PM conversation with another forum member, the question was asked as to why some tiers use silk thread. As an adjunct to the question, it was reported that the consensus of opinion among silk-users on another website is that they use silk mainly as a matter of tradition. The following, slightly edited, was my reply, and the other member thought it should be posted on this forum as a way to instigate discussions by others. See what you think:

"For me, tradition does play a role in my use of silk, but there are practical reasons as well:

1. On thread-body patterns such as spiders, the twisted (corded) construction of Pearsall's Gossamer silks adds what I feel is a life-like segmented texture to the abdomen.
2. On flymph patterns, where the tying medium (thread) is supposed to play a significant role in the color patterns of the body, the bulk of silk thread adds an additional color to the dubbing mix. On properly constructed spun bodies, the silk will show through the dubbing fibers, adding life-like "depth" to the fly. In this role, it can also be wrapped in such a manner as to suggest natural segmentation.
3. Silk, as a natural material, has a translucent quality to it when it gets wet, taking on a "glow" not unlike that of living organisms.

That being said, when one is tying patterns where the only role of the thread is to bind other materials to the hook, it would be foolish to use expensive silk thread, and in some cases -- such as spinning deer hair or binding down slippery synthetic materials -- the lesser tensile strength of silk becomes a liability."

How do other members feel about this subject?

I have always enjoyed seeing you and others on this board display the gorgeous silk tyed patterns. I have seen the silk patterns every now and then since I was young, but, this forum is where I have been able to study them in depth.

I am very interested in how dyed in the silk (pun) tyers view their creations. When on stream and looking in to their fly boxes do they ask them selves, "I wonder if the trout are taking silk today"? Or, do they say out of experience, "Today a silk Partridge & Orange is what the fish will want."?

In a nut shell, are there times when silk will put more fish on to the end of your line than thread?

My questions are for anyone with silk experience. I have none, but like to hear of other fly fishermens experiences.

For me it's a combination. I like tying with silk as a tradition. If a pattern calls for silk that's what I like to use. I also like effects that silk have when dubbed and wet. Wax also I think creates another dimension that it does not on synthetic thread. Whether fish like it more or not I don't know, as I don't tye those patterns with anything other than silk.

Oh, one other thing, most of the folks I know don't tye with it. It's a mystery to them and they don't get it.

When they visited Pete Hidy in Boise, Dave Hughes and Rick Hafele learned how to use the Clark block to spin bodies on silk. Rick told me recently that he wanted to find an alternative to silk, but when he tried using synthetic threads to spin, they wouldn't hold the twist. They would tend to unravel when removed from the card.

Old Hat said that he has had success using synthetic Griffith's sheer 14/0 thread for spinning bodies, and that it will hold the twist. I haven't obtained any Griffith's yet to try, but I think it is a much thinner thread than the Pearsalls Gossamer. If it is a viable option, then that is good.

The great Swedish fly fisherman Gunnar Johnson preferred natural materials over synthetics simply because it made him feel more in harmony with the natural environment around the trout streams. The question of whether synthetics or naturals were better fish-getters was irrelevant to Gunnar. Perhaps it is just a personal preference, similar to a musician choosing between acoustic or electric guitars. You can't go wrong either way.

I'm in agreement with all of your points, plus a couple more:

* Silk conveniently comes on smaller bobbin, which fit the "midge" bobbin holders that I prefer to use.

* I simply enjoy tying with silk. I like the way it goes on better. This is obviously a subjective thing, but it's not because of tradition.

One other reason... it is just what I know. I tie with it enough that it is the thread I know well. I know how to get the effects that I want from it.

Old Hat wrote:One other reason... it is just what I know. I tie with it enough that it is the thread I know well. I know how to get the effects that I want from it.

I was hoping you would add to this discussion. What are those effects?

Just adding my $.02. I use Griffith's Sheer 14/0 quite q bit on my Clark's block. I use a fairly tacky wax, and leave it on the card overnight. It does untwist slightly when removed from the card, but not enough to matter. You can always re-twist a bit after tying the end of the loop to the hook if you want. I haven't had any problems with Griffith's in that regard. I haven't really tried other threads, cuz I use Griffith's almost exclusively.
I do try to use silk when it's called for on "traditional" patterns. I don't notice a lot of difference between the silk and Griffith's as far as holding the twist, especially after allowing the loop to "age" overnight on the card. Being an impatient fellow, I do sometimes make up a half-dozen loops on the block, place them on a card, and begin to use them right away. The twist doesn't hold too well under these conditions, and I usually end up re-twisting the loop a bit as it hangs from the hook.
Guess the $.02 turned into $.05.

Having been on this forum for a few years I have tried both synthetic and silk. But I have a question: Why not tie with floss, which comes in many colors and has a 'shine' to it's skin. I know floss is much thicker, but if they were the same... what of it? I hope there will be a few Clark Blocks in Yellowstone.

DUBBN wrote:

Old Hat wrote:One other reason... it is just what I know. I tie with it enough that it is the thread I know well. I know how to get the effects that I want from it.

I was hoping you would add to this discussion. What are those effects?

It is just that I am used to it. I think it is this way with most threads that any one uses a lot. It just becomes personal. But Pearsall's silk is versatile. It can lay flat, or rope up nicely. It takes on wax well and can even give various colors with the waxes. It is a three rope thread that splits nicely. Split it, dub the single rope twist and you get a bit more thread showing With the double rope. Dub the double and you get less. It is strong when " fresh". It makes a good ribbing. You can split it pre-tying to use a single strand for small flies. It touch dubs nicely. I do like the "depth" to the body it gives especially when twisted, wrapped and wet.

I just think it is hard to find a more versatile thread. I don't know that it helps me catch fish, but I do think it helps me tie better flies, which may or may not help me catch fish.