Why Use Silk Thread?

[Roadkill]

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I tie a heavy bodied P&O with hot orange Depthray nylon floss as a go to attractor for a high lake I fish.

You can use silk floss for split thread dubbing- a technique used in classic Atlantic Salmon flies.

[Kelly L.]

I like it for tradition, and translucent effects. I don't use it on most flies I tie. I do like it very much on traditional patterns such as soft hackle, spiders, flymphs etc... Some flies just look better to me with real silk. I never understood the waxing part of the silk, until I started coming to this forum. Now I have several kinds of wax to go along with that expensive silk thread....lol. I don't know how much money I've spent on silk, but let's say...it is an obscene price. (in MY opinion) 3-4 rolls is not a lot. I have a small box full of it. Then I started on a second box...I have almost every color Pearsall's has, and a spare...and a few others from different companies. I am not ready for a five step program, YET.

[Smuggler]

I feel the same as Bill. The translucent effect of silk alone is the main reason why I use it. Of course there's the tradition factor which cannot be overlooked.

It's hard to turn your nose up at silk.

[Greenwell]

I've been a fan of silk for much longer than I care to remember. I was taught to tie using silk and I'm glad to have had that background as learning to tie with silk, at least in my opinion, teaches invaluable lessons in thread handling, tension, and placing wraps. Early on, my focus was tying classic Catskill dries and silk was the traditional and preferred thread. 6/0 Belding was the standard and it did tie a fine fly indeed.

Silk has some desirable properties that I don't find in synthetics. Low stretch, round profile, ability to hold wax, color, lack of tendency to cut delicate materials, and easy integration with other materials are all attributes that make silk important to my tying.

Many tiers who are new to silk find that it seems to tie a bulkier fly than synthetics. This is certainly true if they match silk turn-for-turn with synthetics, especially the 8/0 - 12/0 stuff. My experience is that with silk, especially when properly waxed, I only need one or two turns to secure a material that might take twice or three times as many with thinner thread. Read almost any of the earlier tying manuals and you'll be surprised at how few turns of (silk) thread they suggest are needed to tie in a material.

Many threads, especially nylon, have a lot of stretch and unless constant pressure is maintained the thread will "relax" and the result will be a less secure wrap. I may ruffle some feathers here but I don't like the micro threads much at all. Just to be fair, I was an early adaptor and used these enough to form a defendable opinion. Sure, you can tie super small heads, etc. but I have always kept the number of wraps on my flies to a minimum and can still get a nice small head and slim body even with silk. Think technique rather than material. While I still use 8/0 on a couple of very lightly dressed dry patterns, I pretty much gave up micro threads a few years back. About the only synthetic I use on a regular basis is good old Danville Flymaster 6/0. It's a bit stretchy but ties flat and doesn't bulk up if you keep the wraps to a minimum.

Silk may be a bit more expensive, but unless one is tying commercially it's not really that much costlier to use than synthetics.

And silk has one more property that I feel is overlooked but is something to be considered. It's a natural material so it's biodegradable. With the near ubiquity of synthetics in today's flies, the ability of a material to break down if lost to snags, limbs, or in the mouth of a trout is something seldom considered. While there is no way to get away entirely from man-made materials in both our fishing and tying, (think lines, leader/tippet, graphite and glass rods) I like to feel that if lost my flies will break down in a reasonable amount of time and cause the least possible amount of damage to the rivers and their inhabitants.

[DUBBN]

Many tiers who are new to silk find that it seems to tie a bulkier fly than synthetics. This is certainly true if they match silk turn-for-turn with synthetics, especially the 8/0 - 12/0 stuff. My experience is that with silk, especially when properly waxed, I only need one or two turns to secure a material that might take twice or three times as many with thinner thread. Read almost any of the earlier tying manuals and you'll be surprised at how few turns of (silk) thread they suggest are needed to tie in a material.

I am a bit confused. Are you saying that the micro threads need more turns than silk to secure material? Personally I have never found it necessary to use more than one or two wraps of Veevus 12/0, or Griffith Sheer to secure any material that I have used. Does the silk have the material holding trait, or does the wax. Or is it a combination of the two? Could wax added to thread make it better at holding material? I hope you can elaborate.

[Greenwell]

Personal tying techniques have much to do with how many wraps a tier uses to secure a material. The amount of pressure one uses can determine how much thread is needed to hold a material in place. I tend to push my thread to it's limits whether it's a strong synthetic or silk with far less tensile strength. In my experience I find that silk, being by nature thicker than micro threads, presents more surface area to the material to be tied in and therefore, for me at least, requires fewer wraps for a secure hold. I also state this from my experience watching other tiers use micro threads; most I have seen use more wraps than necessary. You don't seem to fall into that group! I taught fly tying for many years and one of the hardest things to get both beginning and intermediate tiers to realize is how few wraps (of any thread) one actually needs to tie a durable fly.

I tie with both waxed and un-waxed silk. Properly waxed silk is more "grippy", a fine property in my book, but I use un-waxed silk nearly as often, especially on dry flies or when I want the silk color to remain unchanged. Un-waxed silk is a bit more slippery but not so much so that I find it harder to work with.

One other thing to consider is whether one puts down a layer of thread before starting the fly, or ties on a bare hook. A thread base gives the tying thread more grip and less slippage when joining hook to material but may increase bulk slightly. I prefer to tie on a bare hook but often use a foundation of thread under some materials, for instance when I tie deer hair beetles or any fly where thick materials are more "lashed" to the hook than tied on.

[letumgo]

If I could figure out how to "pin" a topic, this would be one of the ones I'd pin.

Great topic, great questions and educational answers. I really enjoy this sort of discussion.

As for me, I began tying with silk for the link to the traditional patterns. Tying with silk, on small wingless wets, has taught me thread control.

Count. Each. Wrap.
Make. Each. Wrap. Count.

I love tying with silk thread and silk floss.

[Jim Slattery]

Greenwell summed up my thoughts on silk thread pretty well. I use mostly silk for my fishing flies. I do however use uni 3/0, 6/0 and 8/0 as well as Danville pre waxed 6/0. Montana Fly Co. also has some nice threads.
The point about the synthetic thread stretching is a valid. I have found that I have to make a few extra wraps when using really stretchy thread tying in deer hair for Stimulators and such. Even using old fashion tying wax doesn't help with really stretchy thread.
Jim

[William Anderson]

Greenwell summed up my thoughts on silk thread pretty well.

Me too. I couldn't add much to that. I haven't found the smaller tying threads to have and disadvantages in my regular tying, but I'll admit, once I started tying with silk years ago, it required me to really consider my wrap placement and numbers which made me a much better tier.

Regarding the pre-spun bodies, silk is my favorite by far. I have so many waxes it's hard to keep track but if you use a wax with a higher tack, the bodies hold quite well, without issues. I've worked with some of the Guttermann threads, which hold well and produce very nice bodies, but the diameter of the thread bothers me, so I don't do it often. It does work as long as the wax has a high rosin content. On the other hand, even with silk, if the wax has a softer, more waxy consistency, time is required to allow the bodies to really set up. I haven't tried using regular tying thread for the dubbing blocks. Carl did it with exceptional skill. I would like to be able to create bodies for #18's. I may have to give that a try. I hardly see the effectiveness of this over touch dubbing at a #18...but that's not really the point is it? These are just fun to work with.

Dubbn, thanks for the prod and Bill, thanks so much for crafting this topic for exploration. Excellent reading.

w

[Jim Slattery]

William,
I have tied size 20 thorax flymphs with the spun bodies. They were tied on the Daiichi 1550 hook, so no extra shank.. To help with bulk the tying thread was spiraled tying in the tail and body and back up.
Jim