Yorkshire Trout Flies

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Re: Yorkshire Trout Flies

Postby ThirdMeadow » Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:41 pm

John,
Those hook sizes above are Roman Numeral "1". Here are the conversions between the old (Reddich) scale and new (Pennell) scale:

Image

Yes ... by today's standards, hackle barbs in the 1800s were very long relative to the hook shank, especially on spiders. The hackle was intended to imitate both wings and legs, hence the length. Still, they were pretty long. Skues advocated short hackle and seemed to start a trend towards shorter hackle. Still, lots of tyers prefer hackle that is traditionally long.

Are you coming to the Badger show this winter? Hope so.

Speaking of Badgers, 'twas a good showing today!

Cheers, Phil
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Re: Yorkshire Trout Flies

Postby Johnno » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:19 pm

I think a "1" equates to about a 14 or 15.

You've got to remember test back in the day Tyers didn't have the luxury of a lot of hackles to chose from, they just used what they had. I don't think that proportion (to some extent) would have overly mattered to them. A longer hackle invites better movement and profile. Certainly a lot of the 19th and early 20th century wets and soft hackles I have sport long hackles. To be fair there are some with shorter hackles too....
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Re: Yorkshire Trout Flies

Postby WiFlyfisher » Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:50 am

I often wondered if it is more of the artist taking certain liberties in his painting of the flies.

I assume the hackle was wrapped around the hook shank, yet the artist chose to only show the hackle directly above and below the hook. As you pointed out, he also adds a segmented look as well. Could he also have made the hackle extra long for an artistic touch?

In Mary Orvis Marbury's book "Favorite Flies and Their History" the hackles are never that long. The artist also tried to show the hackle is wrapped completely around the hook in the colored plates in Marbury's book. I do realize that her book contains only American patterns but they were influenced by fly patterns from across the ocean.

Also, the Yorkshire fly tyers could see the insects just like us and I would guess back then they would have had access to the entire bird skin to select the feathers from for each pattern.

------------------
I hope to attend the Badger Show again to see you, Henry and some others. When is it next year?

Badgers looked great yesterday.
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Re: Yorkshire Trout Flies

Postby hankaye » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:00 am

WiFlyfisher, Howdy;

I would presume that the older artists only showed the hackle above and below
the body was so the reader could see the body and understood that the hackle
was wrapped all the way around. However one always has the option of plucking
the fibers from the sides to match the image ... ;)

hank
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Re: Yorkshire Trout Flies

Postby daringduffer » Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:20 am

As far as I know there was at least two schools regarding how to wrap the hackle, in-the-round or-over-and under. The proponents of the latter argued 'wings above and legs below'. Both ways work.
I suppose authors were happy to be able to include illustrations and accepted some artistic liberty.
Conclusion; who knows.

Seems as if really sparsely tied flies are modern creatures on eyed hooks. Ancient flies (before 1991) were mostly tied with fuller hackles in the round.

dd
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Re: Yorkshire Trout Flies

Postby wsbailey » Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:47 am

In his book "A Handbook of North Country Trout Flies" Roger Fogg has a section on winged flies. In the case where the wing and the legs are differents colors; he shows the legs being put on as a beard hackle.
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Re: Yorkshire Trout Flies

Postby daringduffer » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:39 pm

William Hastie Lawrie also used different hackle for legs and wings for some of his patterns. Some of us are more lazy and the fish aren't always picky.

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Re: Yorkshire Trout Flies

Postby wsbailey » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:58 pm

No. 20 Little Dark Watchet would be a good example.
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Re: Yorkshire Trout Flies

Postby redietz » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:40 pm

wsbailey wrote:No. 20 Little Dark Watchet would be a good example.


What are you referring when you mean a "good example" ("over and under wings" or "ribs" or lack of apparent ribs by being a dubbed body)?

The 18 and 19 LDW are essentially"ribbed", by using two different colors of thread, and the text says so.
Bob
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Re: Yorkshire Trout Flies

Postby wsbailey » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:49 pm

Pritt's No. 20 is a good example where the wings and legs would have to put on separately, especially if you used the calf's hair.
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