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Re: Yorkshire Trout Flies

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:19 pm
by Johnno
I think a "1" equates to about a 14 or 15.

You've got to remember test back in the day Tyers didn't have the luxury of a lot of hackles to chose from, they just used what they had. I don't think that proportion (to some extent) would have overly mattered to them. A longer hackle invites better movement and profile. Certainly a lot of the 19th and early 20th century wets and soft hackles I have sport long hackles. To be fair there are some with shorter hackles too....

Re: Yorkshire Trout Flies

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:00 am
by hankaye
WiFlyfisher, Howdy;

I would presume that the older artists only showed the hackle above and below
the body was so the reader could see the body and understood that the hackle
was wrapped all the way around. However one always has the option of plucking
the fibers from the sides to match the image ... ;)

hank

Re: Yorkshire Trout Flies

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:20 am
by daringduffer
As far as I know there was at least two schools regarding how to wrap the hackle, in-the-round or-over-and under. The proponents of the latter argued 'wings above and legs below'. Both ways work.
I suppose authors were happy to be able to include illustrations and accepted some artistic liberty.
Conclusion; who knows.

Seems as if really sparsely tied flies are modern creatures on eyed hooks. Ancient flies (before 1991) were mostly tied with fuller hackles in the round.

dd

Re: Yorkshire Trout Flies

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:47 am
by wsbailey
In his book "A Handbook of North Country Trout Flies" Roger Fogg has a section on winged flies. In the case where the wing and the legs are differents colors; he shows the legs being put on as a beard hackle.

Re: Yorkshire Trout Flies

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:39 pm
by daringduffer
William Hastie Lawrie also used different hackle for legs and wings for some of his patterns. Some of us are more lazy and the fish aren't always picky.

dd

Re: Yorkshire Trout Flies

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:58 pm
by wsbailey
No. 20 Little Dark Watchet would be a good example.

Re: Yorkshire Trout Flies

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:40 pm
by redietz
wsbailey wrote:No. 20 Little Dark Watchet would be a good example.
What are you referring when you mean a "good example" ("over and under wings" or "ribs" or lack of apparent ribs by being a dubbed body)?

The 18 and 19 LDW are essentially"ribbed", by using two different colors of thread, and the text says so.

Re: Yorkshire Trout Flies

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:49 pm
by wsbailey
Pritt's No. 20 is a good example where the wings and legs would have to put on separately, especially if you used the calf's hair.

Re: Yorkshire Trout Flies

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:01 pm
by redietz
wsbailey wrote:Pritt's No. 20 is a good example where the wings and legs would have to put on separately, especially if you used the calf's hair.
Thanks. Yes, clearly.

The thread seems to have two topics going and it's getting a bit hard for me to follow.

Re: Yorkshire Trout Flies

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:52 pm
by PhilA
WiFlyfisher wrote:In Mary Orvis Marbury's book "Favorite Flies and Their History" the hackles are never that long. The artist also tried to show the hackle is wrapped completely around the hook in the colored plates in Marbury's book. I do realize that her book contains only American patterns but they were influenced by fly patterns from across the ocean.
------------------
I hope to attend the Badger Show again to see you, Henry and some others. When is it next year?
John,
The Badger show is Feb. 10 (http://badgerflyfishers.com/?page_id=9). If possible, allow sufficient time for post-game beers at the local brewery.

Thaddeus Norris ("Uncle Thad") had a big influence on American wet flies. His 1864 book The American Angler's Book was very influential. It was encyclopedic and (I think) the first American book on how to tie flies. Even the great Theodore Gordon learned to tie flies from Norris' book. Norris references English authors such as Hofland, Chitty, and Ronalds extensively and presents dozens of their fly recipes for winged and wingless wet flies. He advocated hackle whose length is more in proportion to modern standards. From his book: "The fibers of the hackle, therefore, while they may reach the bottom of the hook, should never extend much, if at all, below it."

Image