leisenring lift

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Re: leisenring lift

Post by fflutterffly » Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:10 am

Carl this is very well done and informative. Thank you for taking the time. Great work!
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Re: leisenring lift

Post by Old Hat » Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:50 am

Thanks for the "likes" :)

Just to be clear, I really am not trying to say this is the Leisenring Lift. It is only what I envision when I look thoroughly through the content and context of the transcript Lance posted. I think this transcript is about as "first hand" as one could imagine without fishing with B. Jim. As Lance may have alluded to, there could be some issues with what he was actually doing and how he was explaining the technique.
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Re: leisenring lift

Post by Ruard » Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:16 pm

I found this in a little book by Vernon S. Hidy Sports Illustrated flyfishing.It is about the Leisenring Lift:

Image

For me it is clear: the man in the picture is fishing downstream. Amazing is that the fly fisher does not disturb the fish and that he can see his fly bump the bump just a few inches from the bottom.


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Re: leisenring lift

Post by tie2fish » Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:24 am

The illustration posted above by Ruard may be found on pages 52-53 of the Sports Illustrated Book of Wet-Fly Fishing (J.B. Lippencott Company, Philadelphia and New York, 1961), with text by Vernon S. "Pete" Hidy in collaboration with Coles Phinizy.

Hopefully this will dismiss once and for all the claim made by many that "The Lift" was performed by casting directly upstream to a sighted fish in the same manner as are dry flies and/or upstream high-stick nymph presentations. Basic hydraulic physics simply do not support such claims.
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Re: leisenring lift

Post by DUBBN » Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:03 pm

I missed the high sticking references in this thread.

If I am not letting a nymph rig drift down stream from me, I am neglecting half the strike zone. Once the rig has drifted below, a lift can be implemented. Lucky for me there are a lot more nymphing techniques than high sticking. Sight fishing without an indicator is one of them. In any scenario that I encounter, casting directly upstream is rarely performed. Quartering up, mending when necessary, and lifting at the end (down stream from my position) is not that difficult,and implemented more than any other, by me. That being said, I can not recall casting 20 feet above a trout to get him to take a sub-surface pattern if I am sight fishing to it. Six to ten feet has been more than sufficient for me. Then again, I do target the fish that are the dumber ones.



I am not bright enough to understand the physics that have been discussed here, but I did watch the Big Bang Theory last night.
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Re: leisenring lift

Post by gingerdun » Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:42 pm

Carl,
Your diagram exactly fits my interpretation of the confusing Leisenring manuscript. Beautifully done.
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Re: leisenring lift

Post by CM_Stewart » Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:48 am

Excellent thread.

If someone is going to film this, and I hope someone does, be aware that this is not a project that you can do alone. A GoPro on a headband will not capture what you want to show, and the fisheye lens will distort the rod, the angles and the distances. You will need at least one and preferably two people filming you while you are fishing, and you will have to do a voice-over during editing to describe what you are doing as you are doing it. Of course, ideally, it would be done on a gin clear spring creek so the camera (with polarizing filter) could at least capture the fish's actions even if it couldn't pick up the fly.

So, Lance, when the book is finished, how about a film? You've got the stills from your slide shows and I'll bet your camera equipment is up to the task for the video. The definitive Liesenring (don't call it a) Lift caught on tape!

That's my 2 cents.
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Re: leisenring lift

Post by Roadkill » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:25 pm

In terms of the "Leisenring Lift" I support an interpretation that it is a downstream vertical curve in the water column like the illustration Ruard posted. The cross stream deadly curve to me is merely another variation of the wet fly swing. I am sure that an expert like Jim used a wide variety of tactics like any experienced fisherman to mimic the insects he knew so well, but unfortunately we only have one of record with the Leisenring imprimatur on it. Various insects have different angles of emergence which come into play even more in Stillwater fishing. The SI illustration is in the tactics for fishing a Big Pool which more closely resembles a Stillwater environment rather than moving water where you might be high sticking or Czech nymphing.

Carl's interpretation of Jim's language is a spot on effective technique but I am also not sure it is the "Lift".
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Re: leisenring lift

Post by fflutterffly » Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:58 am

I agree with CM. This video must be done from many angles and a caveat attached stating that this is interpretation since little was written. I'd also mention that some of the world renowned resources have been consulted.
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Re: leisenring lift

Post by gingerdun » Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:40 pm

This thread is pretty good, except for the part about Lance making a video. :shock:
My feeble abilities are barely up to making a book, as some of you may have noticed.
Seriously, the conversation in this thread is fascinating, so thank you Ariel for getting it started.

In the absence of a crystal-clear statement from Jim Leisenring himself, I wonder if the Leisenring Lift can be more usefully described as general technique to be adapted according to water and insect conditions? The angle and length of the cast, upstream or down, like the depth of the fly, can be varied widely. The important part is that once the fly approaches the fish, it starts to rise, cutting across the current in an arc. The rise happens naturally when the rod is stopped, but could also include some rod lift by the angler.

Is there anything about this that seems questionable? Is it too vague? I am hoping that John Shaner will chime in here, after consulting with his books on North Country wet fly technique.

I don't think we will ever have anything more precise about Leisenrin's method, given how little information was written down.

Lance
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