Folded quill winged wet flies

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ForumGhillie
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Re: Folded quill winged wet flies

Post by ForumGhillie » Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:58 am

Theroe wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:01 am
John
Glad to hear of your success with the folded wing. For me, it sounds odd that so many haven’t used nor heard of the folded wing: this method is a staple of eastern Pennsylvania tyers. Actually, this is the first winging method Ivan taught me. It works excellent with the “forward and split technique as well.

PS - I put a package in the mail for you, you should be receiving it in a day or two.

Dana
Dana, thank you!

For many of us Midwestern fly tiers we have never had the luxury of tying with the eastern fly tiers. I have only tied and fished with two eastern fly tiers, Eric Peper and Bob Nastasi. I watched many times Nastasi tying comparaduns and Eric I have watch numerous times but I don't recall him ever tying a winged wet fly. So all my many years of tying have come from my fly tying books that I hold dear to me. Out West this past Summer it was pure joy for me to spend time with Tom (upstate) watching him tie and talking fly tying. Also, the Campfire Lodge tying Tuesday was a lot of fun to watch other tyers like narcodog tying and Jim Slattery tying flymphs using his knee to create the dubbing for the body.

Some day I would love to see someone from out East tying a Catskill dry fly with woodduck wings. I have tied them but they are a pain to get the wings right even with books like Mike Vallas. I am talking totally balanced and with just a few wraps.

I just don't see many people tying patterns with wings, wet or dry anymore. I grew up with flies like the Royal Coachman, Leadwing Coachman, etc. and the Catskill dries which I never totally mastered. As a kid, back in the 60's I don't remember anyone talking or fishing soft hackles, but they did fish winged wets, at least around me.
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Re: Folded quill winged wet flies

Post by upstatetrout » Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:28 am

Thank you very much for the kind words John. It was great fun to be out west and tying at campfire lodge this past summer. On u tube look up Dave Brandt tying a Catskill style wing. His method is very good .Also there is wood duck and there is wood duck. We choose as per the pattern i.e. dark for a march brown and light as for a cahill. I hear that Narco now has the largest collection of wood duck in the free world so perhaps he should chime in.

Tom
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Re: Folded quill winged wet flies

Post by tie2fish » Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:47 am

Here's a good demo on split upright wood duck wings ..

https://vimeo.com/120367400
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Re: Folded quill winged wet flies

Post by ForumGhillie » Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:54 am

Thanks guys, but I want to be right there with the person like Joe Fox tying the split wings. 😊
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Re: Folded quill winged wet flies

Post by upstatetrout » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:10 am

I think the best Catskill style tiers tiers are Mike Valla,Dave Brandt,Mary Dette and Ed Van Put.

The very best ever was Walt Dette.
Rube Cross and the Darbees are right up there to.
Now that I am thinking about it David Stentrom and Niklas Dahlin from Europe are pretty good to. Oh hell there are a lot of people who are good at it.

Fly tying in my opinion does not qualify as art. An art form does not justify copying but fly tying is all about that i.e. patterns. It is a fine hobby and at best a craft. Oh well sorry for the rant back to reading the feather thief a fine read but nothing but rubbish.


Tom
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Re: Folded quill winged wet flies

Post by wsbailey » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:22 am

Davie McPhail tears rather than cuts bronze mallard for wings. They seem to hold together better that way.
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Re: Folded quill winged wet flies

Post by ForumGhillie » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:22 am

Tom,

Sorry I don't mean to take this thread off the main topic of winged wets.

Why I am amazed at the great split wing fly tiers is for them to do production tying they had to have it down to a science. Guys, like the Dettes and Valla tie them perfectly and seem effortlessly. That is what I want to see in person.

I can tie the split wings, but it is tedious and takes me time.

Even winged wets takes practice to get them just right.

I might have to call narcoBob!! I have a pile of wood duck flank feathers I got from Feather Emporium, but not dark wood duck feathers. Maybe I can entice him with some more cheesecurds. :lol: :lol:

Thanks,

John
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Re: Folded quill winged wet flies

Post by tie2fish » Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:59 pm

upstatetrout wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:10 am

Fly tying in my opinion does not qualify as art. An art form does not justify copying but fly tying is all about that i.e. patterns. It is a fine hobby and at best a craft. Oh well sorry for the rant back to reading the feather thief a fine read but nothing but rubbish.

Tom
I guess I could be convinced that copying a known, existing pattern might not be "art", but I would take issue with that generalization being applied across the board to all fly tying. IMO, if a tier creates something that he has never seen or read about before and does not know exists, he cannot be accused of copying it. And if that creation is aesthetically pleasing to the human eye for its physical properties of proportion, colors, shape, and the like, then I do not see any substantive difference between it and a beautiful painting that nearly everyone would agree is "art".

Bill
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Re: Folded quill winged wet flies

Post by wsbailey » Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:20 pm

The main difference between applied art and fine art is purpose. Applied art is tailored for functionality, or in other words, the design meets a practical purpose; its used for something. While, on the other hand, fine art is solely for aesthetic, visual purposes.
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Re: Folded quill winged wet flies

Post by tie2fish » Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:43 pm

wsbailey wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:20 pm
The main difference between applied art and fine art is purpose. Applied art is tailored for functionality, or in other words, the design meets a practical purpose; its used for something. While, on the other hand, fine art is solely for aesthetic, visual purposes.
Despite my screen name, I do often tie with solely aesthetic purpose in mind. If a fish happens to like it, so much the better.

I would also like to suggest that a considerable amount of "fine art" came about because the artist was paid to create it (e.g. commissioned paintings such as the Sistine chapel). Seems fairly practical to me. ;)
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