FLYMPH FORUM

As part of his remarks about a previous post on the Snipe Bloa pattern, Ray Tucker (letumgo) said:

by letumgo » September 4th, 2018, 11:58 am
"I need to pull out my snipe skin and look at the underwing feathers again. I'm surprised the hackle markings resemble a muted grizzly hen hackle, just with less barring. It's been a while since I looked at those hackles. In my mind, when I read "Bloa" I tend to picture a solid grey hackle."

In clarification, I offer the following photo of the underside of a Common (Eurasian) Snipe showing the delicate light cream and dark brown colors of the undercoverts. This bird, which was used with some frequency by old English tiers, is a cousin of the North American Wilson's Snipe and Woodcock. I have not seen any references that suggest using either of them as a substitute for the Old Country bird.

It is considered to be a game bird, and the skins are in relatively short supply. The commercial sources with which I am familiar are Cookshill and Veniard, both English companies who have dealers in the US. Cookshill will also sell direct if you call him (Steve). See Google for contact info.

(As for the "Bloa" part of the fly pattern, I think that refers to the dull grey effect provided by the touch dubbed mole on the body.)

Bill - Thank you for taking the time to photograph your snipe skin, and provide additional background discussion. This is exactly what John had in mind, when setting up the new "Soft Hackle Materials" subsection on the forum. Specific discussion of the tying materials themselves, sourcing and suitable substitute materials.

Kudos on a great post. Very useful and informative.

PS - That is a gorgeous snipe skin, by the way.

tie2fish wrote: ↑Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:16 am
In clarification, I offer the following photo of the underside of a Common (Eurasian) Snipe showing the delicate light cream and dark brown colors of the undercoverts. This bird, which was used with some frequency by old English tiers, is a cousin of the North American Wilson's Snipe ...

Cousin or the same species, depending on which ornithological society you believe. Recent consensus is that they're different species, based mainly on the fact that one has one more tail feather than the other. They were long considered identical, and for tying purposes, they might as well be.

The snag is that some of the dressings in Pritt call for jack snipe, a different species, for which there is no North American equivalent.

I'm going to go through my skins John, but there are some American game bird feathers that are very similar in color (sage grouse comes to mind)...the problem being is they are not of a suitable size to be a good substitute.

WiFlyfisher wrote: ↑Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:44 am Bill, excellent!

So is there a North American bird feather substitute for the English snipe? For some reason those feathers look famalier to me.

As mentioned above, our Wilson's snipe and the common (English) snipe were for centuries considered to be the same bird.

Wilson's Jack Snipe is what you might look for. I'm not sure which federal law allows or restricts the trade of bird feathers but a migratory bird with non-duck like feet is restricted. That's why we don't see North American jack snipe skins for sale. My caveat is this is as I understand things.

As Wiflifisher no doubt knows, they do hunt snipe in Wisconsin ...

http://whoonew.com/2013/03/snipe-hunting-wisconsin/

As is true with essentially all natural tying materials, I find considerable variation in snipe wings. Some are lighter; some are darker. Some are more brownish than dun; some are more dun then brown. Some are more mottled; some are less mottled. I have no idea whether the differences are due to age of bird, time of year harvested, geography, diet, genetics, or any of many possibilities.

I've bought over the years snipe wings from both European and American sources. The American source (Blue Ribbon Flies), however, doesn't indicate whether the wings are of European or American origin. Thus, the origin is uncertain. As a group, I can't see much difference from the European or BRF wings.

Typical European snipe wings:





Typical Blue Ribbon Flies snipe wings:




Blue Ribbon Flies only occasionally has snipe wings in stock, so get 'em when you can! (None currently)

Thanks for the additional info, Phil. Your photos clearly show the slight differences you speak of. If what's in those pix represents all or part of your materials stash, you are a fortunate man.

On another topic, how did Black Earth Creek make out after that flooding a few weeks back?