I.D. insects- A general question

[fflutterffly]

It's 4:00 Am and I'm thinking about bugs. Not just any bugs mind you, but the three major Orders we all so dearly love to imitate from fur and feather. Birthdays have a way of making you sit back and think about "time wasted." And it seems that I've wasted a great deal of time, trying in vain, to remember all the latin names of the bugs important to my waters. I love the way the names sound: Brachycentrus,Epeorus, Hellgammite! (Oh those lovely pinchers) So when I picked up Dave Hughes Handbook for Hatches, which I had read many times, I was dropped to my knees. It seems that I had never read the Preface! How could I have missed this most simple of summations. It became clear to me the fundamentals I had so blatantly missed. The few rules that will now uncomplicated my fly fishing life forever. I put it before you, these simple axioms (paraphrased) for discussion. I will only bore you with a few.

#1. All adult Mayflies look alike-the have the same general shape: Slender, up winged, tailed
#2 All adult Caddisfly look alike- Pup tent winged
#3 All adult Stonefly look alike.- Wings over back
#4 Generally speaking all nymphs of a given order look alike.
The operative word here is GENERALLY, not specifically.
It goes without saying, even though I will, once you have figured out the general configuration of the bug, you now must match the fly in size and than color.

I believe for a beginning fly fisher this revelation, at least for me, simplifies the first step to a obsessive compulsive life on the water of checking to see if a Mayfly has two spots on it Arse or a line down it's left side in the shape of an up tilted middle finger.

So after a long winded opening the question is this: Are all the many patterns designed to mimic a specific fly that important or can you simply tie to the general population of insects? As Mr. Hughes so dearly puts it: Fish don't speak Latin

bona enim et vos hoc volo, magnum diem

[Mike Connor]

Basically yes, just sometimes you need one the right size, the right colour, and with the right number of spots on its arse.

Ut wisi quoque die

TL
MC

[narcodog]

I think Mike answered the question most succinctly. I have used the same patterns here in the south as I have used in the west and northeast. Color and size along with the time of year dictate what I use.

[kanutripr]

Good question A!

I decided a long time ago (about 5 years or so ) that for the sake of speeding up the learning curve (plus I couldn't be bothered learning all those insecty latin names , plus I like to only carry a couple of fly boxes ) that I would tie flies that basically imitate the families in a very general way and work on my presentation instead. It seems to work just fine. The only thing I've really found is SIZE MATTERS.

ROTFLMAO!



(Just call me lazy.)

(Oh and I still have more patterns than really necessary but that's just because I find it fun to put different materials together)



Vicki

[Mike Connor]

Humour aside, the basic idea is true enough, but the ramifications of that idea are very far reaching. That the basic idea is true is proven all the time and is basically the only reason that fly-fishing works as universally as it does. This leads to one or or two other conclusions.

Trout can't see very well even under the best conditions, that is why ANY flies work at all. Trout, ( and of course other fish), are sensitive to movement. Even very slight movement. What movement or the lack of it is required depends on the prey concerned and the specific circumstances. (The same applies to shortsighted people, they are unable to see detail very well but they can see when something moves). In my opinion colour is also important but also depends on conditions. That is to say a poor colour match may well work in some conditions but not in others.

Trout have no higher brain functions like long term memory, which precludes them "knowing" what an insect really looks like or should look like. They obviously can develop a short term fairly specific prey image of some description which explains "selectivity". Even then, in the majority of cases if you get a good general imitation into the right place at the right time and with the right movement then you will catch the fish concerned. This is due to the general instinctive prey image the trout have. You may well manage it with a a very bad imitation as well, but less often. With a very good imitation you will manage it more often. This assumes that presentation is perfect.

The amount of success in terms of fish caught is related to the skill required to approach the fish, present the imitation, and how good that imitation is under the circumstances. Usually the best imitation is one that looks and behaves like whatever the fish are feeding on at the time, but in many cases the fish will take anything even remotely resembling an insect or other prey, this all depends on the circumstances.

Whether you place your faith in generic patterns or highly specific ones you will still catch fish as long as your presentation is adequate, although good generics will always catch more fish in total than specifics used at the wrong time or badly. If you manage to find some patterns either generic or specific that work under specific circumstances and you learn how to present them well, you will catch more fish under those conditions.

If it were possible to have a really good imitation for every insect, ( or indeed other prey), and every set of conditions, and know when and how to use them, then that would theoretically catch the most fish. But it is not possible, so selections are always a compromise.

A good generic selection coupled with good presentation will catch plenty of fish. Even fairly lousy flies will catch fair numbers of fish when presented properly. However, even first class flies wont catch much unless presented properly.

Insects with a specific number of spots on their posteriors are unlikely to prove any more efficient than others in most cases, there are however one or two cases where spotting or mottling makes a fly a better imitation.

As far as the angler is concerned, whether he counts the spots on insect posteriors, uses specific imitations, or more generic imitations in appropriate sizes and colours, is purely a matter of personal preference.

TL
MC

[RnF]

The fly selection I take to the rivers has simplified over the years and become more basic. I have several friends of mine who were excited to see my fly boxes and were let down when they found the boxes were full of hare's ear soft hackles and similar patterns. I have a general idea what/when is hatching on the rivers I fish (mayflies, midges, caddis, size and colors), but I don't care about what subspecies it is. I just care what they look like in general and as long as I am close in size and color, I can catch fish. I would go crazy trying to match every single insect exactly that I saw. (I have tried)

You would be amazed how many flies I have tied that looked just like the real thing and the fish won't even sniff at them.

It is important to know what a mayfly, midge, caddis, crustaceans, etc are though. Basic knowledge is important, but like that book says, they are all generally the same (ie all mayflies, all midges, all caddis etc). If you want to know all the scientific names, it's all on you Fish don't care what they are called, it's all food to them haha.

[flyfishwithme]

Years ago I had this kind of problem trying to get students to understand entomology. In the end I tried to simplify it in two dimensions.
The first was to describe the characteristics of insects and then try and place then into the stream side.
THis is what I came up with.
1. Order Shredders. These are the invertebrate that take all of the material that falls into streams and break them down. Typically caddis/sedges and they inhabit the very top part of our streams.
2. Order catchers. These are the vertebrae that capture detritus and break it down even further. Typically these are net weaving caddis and a VERY few mayfly species.
3. Order Scrapers. These for the most prevalent insects and include upswings and caddis/sedges. You can also include fish, frogs etc in this order.
4. Order Terrestrials - Things that fall into the stream. In the updaters these will be beetles, ants etc. In the lower parts hoppers crickets etc.
5. Order Predators - Everything that eats all of the above and include small fish.
By doing this (I think I have it better refined than this explanation) you can slot insect orders into the type of stream that you are fishing and with a little observation fly selection.

[hankaye]

fflutterffly, Howdy;

Not being a bug Dr. of any kind and still newish to fly fishing. I posted awhile back about something I had read somewhere,
sorry can't cite the source...
The writer was talking about trying to match the hatch, saw another fisherperson approaching,
asked the other fisher what he should tie on ... New arrival takes off his/her hat, swipes it across the tops of the vegatition...
inspects the contents and sez ... about a size 14 or 16, medium brownish tan.

Sounds like my kind of bug ID. plain, simple, and to the point.

hank

[fflutterffly]

Hank darling... That IS one of the stories in Handbook of the Hatch. Now you know what I'm talking about. Thanks all.

[hankaye]

ffluterffly, Howdy;

Sweetey-pie, I've not read that book as yet ...

May have been on one of the preview pages... ya think ...?
Any way seems like a decient way to do things in the mean time...

hank