Team of flies but no droppers.

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daringduffer
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Team of flies but no droppers.

Post by daringduffer » Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:17 am

This has been discussed before, way back. Have you tried it? What is your experience?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POdPndJ9FGE

dd
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tie2fish
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Re: Team of flies but no droppers.

Post by tie2fish » Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:44 am

I do not remember seeing this before, Stefan, but it does look interesting. I do wonder how much the in-line knot with the inserted hook will compromise the line strength. I also wonder how "life-like" the fly can be that is bound tight to the line, unlike dropper flies that can (to a degree) move independently.
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Re: Team of flies but no droppers.

Post by hankaye » Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:44 am

Howdy All;

Like most of you I thought that the tying directions looked very similar to a 'Surgeon's knot"
and Mr.Bill's question about it's strength has taken me further into the web ... the link is
what I found to best give not just a rating but some other knots to view and ponder.
https://www.saltstrong.com/articles/fishing-knots/

The article stated that this method was used in fast moving sections of the water so, as in
Nymphing, I don't think fluttery fibers are needed as the would in a quieter section of water.

hank
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daringduffer
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Re: Team of flies but no droppers.

Post by daringduffer » Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:52 pm

I picked that video up on another forum in a discussion about North Country spider dropper length. I had seen it before and my reaction was like Bill's, would it not restrict natural movement even more?
https://www.flyfishing.co.uk/trout-and- ... ength.html
Robert L Smith gives his opinion in the discussion.

How about a short dropper with the fly in an open loop knot? More prone to tangle?

hank, they were mostly catching smaller trout where breaking strength wasn't an issue :D

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redietz
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Re: Team of flies but no droppers.

Post by redietz » Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:23 pm

I don't see how this rigging would restrict the movement of the dropper any more than a "New Zealand" rig (attaching the point fly to the "dropper" via a length of tippet tied to the hook bend) which I use regularly, especially on windy days. I still catch plenty of fish on the "dropper". The method shown in the video, in fact, probably results in more hookups, since there's less obstructing the hook point. My only problem with it is that it makes a bit harder to change the hand fly.

My general rule of thumb is to start the day with a conventional dropper, and if I have to untangle twice in the same day, I switch to a New Zealand rig.
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Re: Team of flies but no droppers.

Post by Smuggler » Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:19 am

Saw this years ago and immediately grabbed my stuff and drove out to a nearby stream to try the method. Didn't catch a thing. In fact, I remember getting some frustrated because once you're flies are tied on (depending on the knot you use) they're on for good. I wanted to swap out a bunch of times but obviously couldn't... Not a fan of this method. Always interesting when I read about it but, not a fan.

The tried and tested dropper tag from a blood knot and/or triple surgeons is definitely the way to go IMO.
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Re: Team of flies but no droppers.

Post by hankaye » Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:52 am

dd, Howdy;

I was responding to Mr. Bill's question about line strength being
affected by the knot(s). ;) , 8-) .

hank
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Roadkill
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Re: Team of flies but no droppers.

Post by Roadkill » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:05 am

I fish a 2 or 3 fly cast about 90% of the time and enjoy the results.
As I stated before http://www.flymphforum.com/viewtopic.ph ... ies#p83342 this is a good book on the subject https://www.amazon.com/Fishing-Tandem-F ... 0979346002 .

If I want strength in the connection I use eye to eye connections. Most of the time I just connect to the hook bend of the leading fly. Since I built my own knotted tapered leaders for decades, the occasional Gordian knot tangle is easily replaced by cutting the flies out and re-rigging. ;)
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Re: Team of flies but no droppers.

Post by daringduffer » Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:53 pm

I hear you, hank.

Now quoting Robert Smith;
The old timers used a method of attaching droppers that negated the need for the constant breaking down of the leader. Flies were actually sold dressed on droppers, which were then attached into the leader.
Somebody suggested making a loop to the dropper and attach to/remove from leader in an easy way.

Tried that? (I haven't).

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redietz
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Re: Team of flies but no droppers.

Post by redietz » Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:38 pm

daringduffer wrote:I hear you, hank.

Now quoting Robert Smith;
The old timers used a method of attaching droppers that negated the need for the constant breaking down of the leader. Flies were actually sold dressed on droppers, which were then attached into the leader.
Somebody suggested making a loop to the dropper and attach to/remove from leader in an easy way.

Tried that? (I haven't).

dd
Do you mean using a dropper knot and then attaching a "snell" (I'm using the term loosely here) to the fly or something else?

Something I haven't seen mentioned here to attach a short piece of 3x to the flies to be used as droppers, and tying an overhand knot in the end. (Or several.) Then make slip knot in the leader and insert the knotted end of the 3x into the slip knot. Pull tight. I'm not sure I'd use it if I were fishing for large fish, but in my local stream where a 12 incher a good fish, it works just fine.
Bob
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