FLYMPH FORUM

Thanks for the pointers Tim. Much appreciated. I used four turn blood knots on these leaders. The next ones I try will have three turns, as you suggest. And a treatment with Loc-Tite.

Ray,
Your custom leader thread and all the great pictures are fantastic! I did not realize there were so many formula's out there and you have mastered them quite well! I have a sheet in my "technicals" box that has some very crude but effective leader formulas. None can compare with the dandies you have presented! I too use Maxima leader material in both chameleon and ultragreen! I am beginning to like the ultragreen much better!
Thank you for posting this! It's great!
Dougsden

Ray, Howdy;

Ok, when I was first "getting into" all that is fly fishing I stumbled across this
on Global FlyFisher, apparently, since I was last there they updated it with a
web-based version as well (box on Home page. Some pretty neat "stuff" there.
https://globalflyfisher.com/fish-better/qwikcalc

hank

Guys... I'm curious whether you experience your knotted leaders gathering debris as they are fished. One river I fish in particular, has a fair amount of floating vegetation and other debris that collects on any knots. I normally use triple surgeon's knots to connect tippet to leaders and at droppers...would blood knots collect less?

Ron (ronr) - In my experience, hand knotted leaders are prone to picking up drifting debris from the stream. At certain times of the year (spring and fall) this can be a problem on my local streams. Some of the trees drop those white fussy floaters during pollination cycle, and they often lay in the surface film of the stream. Knotted leaders can grab hold of this debris and needs to be periodically cleaned off your line. Heavy leaf debris, during fall, can also be troublesome.

During these times, it is probably better to use a pre-made tapered leader rig, to minimize places that the debris can snag onto.

However, I am still interested in the hand made leaders, as another thing to learn and do myself. One of the best aspects of fly fishing, is the many faceted opportunity to learn. I make my own rods, and flies. Custom leaders are just another element to explore.

Hank - Thanks for the link. Much appreciated.

Doug - Do you have any leader formulas to share? I'd be interested in soft hackle or bass leaders.

Over the many years I’ve fished I’ve seen many “expert” formulas for knotted leaders. Some of those claimed that a weight forward leader was the way to go. First of all if you insist on knotting your own leaders then the five turn blood knot is the only way to go. A Surgeons knot is weaker and leaves the tag end, if it’s going to be used as a dropper, at a odd angle whereas the blood knot leaves the tag end standing out at a ninety degree angle which is much better for a dropper if it’s length is kept less than a few inches. A dropper that longer than a few inches inevitably will twist around the leader either when casting or even fishing. These days my preferred method of fishing two or more Flies is to use a short factory made tapered leader with a tippet ring, or two tied in tandem the desired width apart and a short piece of tippet knotted to each of the tippet ring(s) to which the dropper fly or point fly is tied. The big advantage to this meathod is that if the dropper length becomes to short then the piece of tippet is easily replaced whilst fishing. When using knotted leader to replace the fly several times will mean using a new leader.
As for the three turn blood knot, there is now way this is as strong as a five turn, if you don’t believe me check out the Knots section of Rio’s website. Sounds good, but using super glue whilst fishing? Recipe for disaster if you ask me.
When casting a multi fly leader you need to be careful and cast with nice open loops, avoid shooting line and you should be ok. In the UK Loch and Lake fishing from a boat often uses a leader with several flies commonly called a “Team” and can be extremely effective but not so easy when fishing from a brushy river bank. In this case I limit myself to just a point fly and one dropper.

letumgo wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:59 am However, I am still interested in the hand made leaders, as another thing to learn and do myself. One of the best aspects of fly fishing, is the many faceted opportunity to learn. I make my own rods, and flies. Custom leaders are just another element to explore.

Doug - Do you have any leader formulas to share? I'd be interested in soft hackle or bass leaders.

Ray I agree with your sentiment about leader making! The book Drag-Free Drift mentioned above should come with the Leader Calc software as well as many tips in the book(22 pages of designs and formulas from notable flyfishers). I started making knotted tapered leaders in 1978 when I bought Fly Fishing by Tom McNally. What I learned in decades of making leaders also made it simple to add or rebuild tippets when needed on my furled leaders I started making in 2006.

If you want more durability on knots I recommend using one of the UV products like Knot Sense. It is a must have in my saltwater gear. A hooked fish in the salt that instantly goes from Predator to Prey on hookup really can test your knots. or
Ban the pig tail!!

Further to my previous post I would like to add that I use homemade silk furled leaders. A short tapered leader to the first loop or tippet ring and generally florocarbon for the rest. Certainly, as suggested use Knot Sense to smooth out any knots if you wish. I used to use it but know only for a nail knot between the fly line and butt section. I always carry a tube not only for knots but it’s great for fixing a hole in waders or your jacket ( only a small one of course) providing the sun is out to provide enough UV
Our forefathers used horsehair or gut for leaders and droppers. They had to use different knots and setups to what is generally used today. One of these days I’m going to try to furl some horsehair when I can find some decent stuff. Should fit in with my cane rod, Hardy Reel and a Phoenix silk fly line. Would give me a great feeling of satisfaction.
Barry

Bazzer69 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:20 am Further to my previous post I would like to add that I use homemade silk furled leaders. A short tapered leader to the first loop or tippet ring and generally florocarbon for the rest. Certainly, as suggested use Knot Sense to smooth out any knots if you wish. I used to use it but know only for a nail knot between the fly line and butt section. I always carry a tube not only for knots but it’s great for fixing a hole in waders or your jacket ( only a small one of course) providing the sun is out to provide enough UV
Our forefathers used horsehair or gut for leaders and droppers. They had to use different knots and setups to what is generally used today. One of these days I’m going to try to furl some horsehair when I can find some decent stuff. Should fit in with my cane rod, Hardy Reel and a Phoenix silk fly line. Would give me a great feeling of satisfaction.
Barry

Tenkara Bum did sell some nice horse hair for leaders and sold the leaders also. The best hair is that from a white stallion, no joke.

If your looking for quality, white, horse hair for making leader snoods, try shops that sell to violin and cello players. Their bows use horsehair, usually Siberian Stallion. Stallion tail hair was used because mares get urine on their tails, discoloring and weakening the hair. White horse hair, when wet, is very translucent and stretches more than you would think.

If you can't find any, let me know. I may have a bit left over from when I was making lines and leaders.