What is a 'Spider'

[DNicolson]

I was asked by somebody, what is the definition of a 'Spider', they thought it was the very basic 'Orange & Partridge type fly, with just a hackle and a thread body. That is not quite correct.
A Spider was a fly with the hackle radiating around the hook shank at the head end. There could be any additions you liked, a dubbed body, wire rib, a thorax and a tail. In southern England this was sometimes called 'Buzz'. The reason for the very bare type of Spider was because a large proportion of the fly life in the streams being fished were small stone flies.
There were no rigid rules on how you dressed your Spiders.

[Stendalen]

Donald, do you know who first put the name Spider in writing?

Martin

[DNicolson]

I am not a hundred percent sure, but Stewart was certainly one of the earliest, but I think it was quite commonly used long before his book. I think the term had been quite commonly used in the North of England and Southern Scotland long before that, and there is every chance that one of the earlier books on fly fishing used it.
It was in common use among fly fishers on both sides of the border.

I'll have a troll through some of the books now available on the Archive and see what I can find.

[willowhead]

Martin.....thass a "Bad" avatar you got there..........KILLER!

[William Anderson]

I admire some of the early fly fishing/tying traditions of regions who found it useful to use the term, but obviously by the time it was documented or published, it had been used for some time in several ways and probably in many regions. I like this question, not for any academic purpose or for a history lesson, but as a way to clarify a useful term to further our current conversations about these flies. I've asked this question in the past, not expecting to find an official answer, and thankfully, it lead to more questions than answers, which is always my favorite course. I'm curious to hear some of the responses, varied and maybe contradictory. I had to divide my group of flies posted on my site into a few groups (spiders, soft-hackles and flymphs) just because it seemed easier to discuss these wingless wets in more refined groups and in an attempt to simplify things rather than complicate them. With that said, I'll venture what the term connotes to me. I was able to organize my boxes, and eventually some web pages based on including spiders as flies with a soft game collar hackle (sometimes hen) and a thread or maybe a natural body material (peacock quill). A biot body and a grouse hackle...sure. Lightly touch dubbed silk body, that too. It just helped to think of Flymphs as being defined by their fur body and construction techniques, and spiders by their utter sparseness. Leaving Soft-Hackles as a catch-all group to describe the flies that didn't fit in the flymph or spider camp. We could just lump all wingless wets and soft-hackles into a pile and let it end there. No harm done. Maybe we can just treat the term as an artifact of some older writings and distinguish our contemporary flies with another term. But the term isn't sacred and I find it useful. But it is an interesting question. I'm looking forward to hearing where this leads.

w

[hankaye]

Howdy All;

I'm all ears( eyes actually), awaiting more input to help me get my head around all of this stuff.
Think I'm going to get a bigger hat

hank

[DNicolson]

'Spider' as a hackling description also includes the West of England style using cock hackles, which is a problem with the term 'Soft-hackle'. Usually we devise these 'boxes' for our convenience, then find they are not always as convenient as we thought. Just goes to show, never get too dogmatic, and we are discussing fly dressing.

[swellcat]

I like this question, not for any academic purpose or for a history lesson, but as a way to clarify a useful term to further our current conversations about these flies.

Bravo, although I'm not hostile to historians or the rest of the academy.

Is methodology the next step? Did "spider" connote a certain manner of hackling, e.g., tying in by the stem or tip and wrapping?

[hankaye]

Howdy All;

Personnal observation;

When I first saw a "Spider" I thought of how it kind of 'looked' like a real spider in the way all of the fibers
sort of accounted for all the legs of a spider as opposed to a fly or other non-arachnids. I think the first
time I saw one with the name "spider" it was one of the more basic ones like a P & O or one along those lines...

But what truly defines a "spider" ?????

hank

[Smuggler]

This is a great topic and gets me thinking.

In my eyes what defines a spider fly is how sparse the dressings are, you know?
I dunno, that's just my opinion.

I can't even remember the first time I read about this style of fly... must have been when I was 14 or so (I'm 24), I have so many damn books haha, which is never a bad thing mind you . I do know that Mr. Nemes's books are why I tie and fish these patterns.