Why no wire?

[Soft-hackle]

Hi again,
I agree with pretty much what's been said. I think the important part of flymph construction is the fact that the based material, whether it be wire or silk or nylon, is that it shows thru the dubbing.

Regarding the Leisenring Lift, according to Hughes, it was done in a shallow area of water, allowing the fly to get deeper. Heavier hooks, as Hans has noted, as well as the addition of a little wire. Helps to do this. You must remember that Leisenring was a wet fly man for the most part. In those days, silk lines were used, probably left un-treated, which helped tremendously to get the fly deeper in the water. With all the new floating lines flying around, we often neglect a sink-tip or full sinking line. Giving the fly ample time to sink before activation-which amounted to stopping progress-using heavier hooks and sinking fly lines assisted Leisenring in getting the fly deep enough to simulate the emergence of a hatching insect.

William,
Sawyer's method was, if I'm not mistaken, an upstream induced take done by casting ahead of the trout with a weighted nymph, and lifting the rod tip at the right moment. My take with Leisenring is the progress of the drifting fly was halted by simply stopping the following of the fly's progress downstream. This also activated the fly, making it rise in the current. I may be wrong on this since my brain is still suffering from chemo fog.

Mark

[William Anderson]

William,
Sawyer's method was, if I'm not mistaken, an upstream induced take done by casting ahead of the trout with a weighted nymph, and lifting the rod tip at the right moment. My take with Leisenring is the progress of the drifting fly was halted by simply stopping the following of the fly's progress downstream. This also activated the fly, making it rise in the current. I may be wrong on this since my brain is still suffering from chemo fog.

Mark

Mark, we're on the same page, I understand that Sawyer was fishing upstream, I was just taken by a description of Sawyer's precision, induced take, achieving the same hatching/rising action desired by Leisenring, but doing it with a fly tied entirely of wire and herl. It just hadn't occurred to me that a weighted nymph would be fished as such a targeted emerger, and without any of the 1970's - 80's style emerger parts and pieces. It shouldn't surprise me, after reading more about Sawyer's technical understanding of the bugs on his water. It's an interesting observation, I think when considering the use of wire and hatch behavior imitation. Leisenring and Sawyer's masterful focus on presentation and using flies dsigned for their unique water types and insect populations to activate the take.

[Soft-hackle]

William,
I read somewhere that the fishermen who contributed the MOST to fly fishing by way of understanding and technique, were those that got to know specific waters very well. I guess that does hold true.

Mark

Ever heard of the "Brooks Method"?

[Hans Weilenmann]

No conversation on the Induced Take can be complete without a reference to Major Oliver "Ollie" Kite. The technique is as much linked to Oliver Kite as it is to Frank Sawyer.

For those into "quaint very-English videos", take a look at some of the weekly tv programs presented by Oliver Kite on Youtube. There is a good measure of flyfishing in them, and a lot more countryside lore.

Cheers,
Hans W

[Soft-hackle]

Thanks, Hans. Will do

Mark

[letumgo]

Thanks for the reference, Hans. I just did a quick search on YouTube and found a tribute to Oliver Kite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGL76417fTA (Part One of Eight)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHfIz3_NghY (There is a nice mention of the induced take at 4 minutes into the video)

Too bad he passed away at only 47. Seems like an interesting gentleman.

[William Anderson]

William,
I read somewhere that the fishermen who contributed the MOST to fly fishing by way of understanding and technique, were those that got to know specific waters very well. I guess that does hold true.

Mark

Ever heard of the "Brooks Method"?

Mark, Brooks is on my list. I understand he wrote quite a bit about presentation and understanding trout habitat and behavior. Unfortunately the only thing I have written by him is in the "Masters of the Nymph" book, which paints him as highly successful, at drifting #4 weighted stonefly nymphs on big water out West through columns of Western sized trout. I think that chapter misrepresents his contribution to presentation methods.

Hans, thanks for that recommendation. I'll check it out.

w

[Kelly L.]

I have no problem with wire dubbing brushes with ultra fine wire. I use them in warm water applications. For flymphs though, sometimes I use wire, sometimes not. I use wire as ribbing, but not to dub with. I have no hang ups with what people use in their flies. If it fits what you want the fly to do, go for it. I prefer to use silk to dub with. However I sometimes just use thread. If I want to taper a body, many times I use a thread under body, then go over that with silk.

[Donald Nicolson]

I think the use of dubbed wire is a relatively recent innovation.
Within the last ten or fifteen years is recent to an old codger like me.
Fine copper wire was usually found on relay coils in the fifties and sixties.
The very nice coloured copper wires were virtually unknown 10/20 years ago.
There is no reason why they cannot be used dubbed now.