Using Dubbing Brushes

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hankaye
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Using Dubbing Brushes

Post by hankaye » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:07 am

Howdy All;

Our friend Ruard requested that each of us that participated in
the Middle Earth Materials swap tye-up a fly with the materials that he
included with his submission. Fine, no problem ... wait a minute ...
how the heck do ya tye these things on ????? Like Hans does with
a wire rib? Up near the front and secure it in with touching turns to
the bend, take tying thread back to the front then wrap the brush to
the thorax?
If different then I'd like to know.
Thanks for ya'll's thoughts.

hank
Striving for a less complicated life since 1949...
"Every day I beat my own previous record for number
of consecutive days I've stayed alive." George Carlin
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tie2fish
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Re: Using Dubbing Brushes

Post by tie2fish » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:14 am

I've seen period diagrams that suggest tying it in up front and covering it with thread wraps on the way to the back. But, I found that having it hanging there while tying in tags, tails and/or ribs only complicated matters, so I tie it in at the rear after I've got the other stuff attached.
Some of the same morons who throw their trash around in National parks also vote. That alone would explain the state of American politics. ~ John Gierach, "Still Life with Brook Trout"
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Ruard
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Re: Using Dubbing Brushes

Post by Ruard » Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:26 am

hankaye wrote:Howdy All;

Our friend Ruard requested that each of us that participated in
the Middle Earth Materials swap tye-up a fly with the materials that he
included with his submission. Fine, no problem ... wait a minute ...
how the heck do ya tye these things on ????? Like Hans does with
a wire rib? Up near the front and secure it in with touching turns to
the bend, take tying thread back to the front then wrap the brush to
the thorax?
If different then I'd like to know.
Thanks for ya'll's thoughts.

hank

I think this is the best way but leave enough room fot tying off the brush and for the hackle.

Greeting
There will allways be a solution.
http://www.aflyinholland.nl
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William Anderson
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Re: Using Dubbing Brushes

Post by William Anderson » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:05 pm

Hank, fortunately Ruard left a good portion of the brush dubbing free. The fly was only a bit tricky because (the way I did it) there was no thorax material to conceal the tie in of the wire before lashing it down along the shank. I believe what you're suggesting is the way I tied this fly. I tied it in where the thorax would be, using the bare wire twist portion and used the thread to cover this portion down to the bend, positioning the brush tie in so that as you bring the brush back up the shank from the bend toward the eye, the dubbing would gradually become more dense until you reach the hackle. So after making my last wraps over the wire twist at the bend, I brought the thread back up in touching turns to the hackle tie in and brought the dubbing brush back up in touching turns to the hackle tie in. After securing the brush and cutting the brush free. With the thread hanging behind the hackle I wrapped the hackle back over the dubbing brush tie off and brought the tying thread up through the hackle and finished the head. Why did it take so many words to get that out. I can't say. My apologies.

I just happened to get this photographed and uploaded today. Great timing.

Image

Olive B175 (all materials provided by Ruard.)

Hook: B175 # 14
Thread: sheer yellow 14/0
Body: dubbingbrush copperwire and dubbing: 75% tan possum and 25% olive Walaby
Hackle: breast feather of a female mallard

Ruard, what a cool idea to provide the materials with each of your swap flies. It was a one shot operation, but the resulting fly is a nice one to have and I enjoyed tying your fly a great deal. Thank you and I hope you like the fly. I'd like to see everyone's results, no doubt some personalities and preferences will show even being given the hook, the hackle and the dubbing brush. Thanks again.

http://www.flymphforum.com/viewtopic.ph ... 2&start=60

w
"A man should not try to eliminate his complexes, but rather come into accord with them. They are ultimately what directs his conduct in the world." Sigmund Freud.
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hankaye
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Re: Using Dubbing Brushes

Post by hankaye » Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:03 pm

dub-ya, Howdy;

No need to apologize for the amount of words used to express an idea.
As it turned out you used the precisely correct amount. Strange how that
works out, don't ya think?

Nice looking fly you tyed. Hope mine comes out as well.

Ruard, thanks for the conformation of the method.

hank
Striving for a less complicated life since 1949...
"Every day I beat my own previous record for number
of consecutive days I've stayed alive." George Carlin
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tie2fish
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Re: Using Dubbing Brushes

Post by tie2fish » Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:49 am

I can understand how tying in components up behind the hackle has some merit by way of ensuring they won't pull out during the wrapping process, but if one is that concerned about this issue, you can always leave a long tag while tying in at the rear and then lash down this tag when you bring the working thread forward. I still contend that unless doing something the hard way adds to the appearance and/or quality of the finished fly,doing it the easy way is preferable.
I actually tried both procedures while doing my prototypes for the July Dun Nymph pattern and found that it was noticeably more difficult to tie in the three wispy "very short" tail fibers with the prickly seal fur dubbing brush hanging right there. Same goes for the ribbing wire. Thus my opinion ... at least for patterns that call for tailing.
Some of the same morons who throw their trash around in National parks also vote. That alone would explain the state of American politics. ~ John Gierach, "Still Life with Brook Trout"
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hankaye
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Re: Using Dubbing Brushes

Post by hankaye » Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:34 am

tie2fish, Howdy;

How would the tie in near the bend effect the smoothness of the body?
Wouldn't it be just as well to lay down a thread base, tie in the tail, run
thread back to near the hackle, tie in the brush and continue from there?
With flattened thread the build-up shouldn't be that much ... or would it?
Not trying to be argumentative, just being curious.

hank
Striving for a less complicated life since 1949...
"Every day I beat my own previous record for number
of consecutive days I've stayed alive." George Carlin
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tie2fish
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Re: Using Dubbing Brushes

Post by tie2fish » Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:58 am

Hank ~ I think it matters little whether you cover a section of the dubbing brush with thread wraps going back or coming forward with respect to body "smoothness". Which, by the by, is not necessarily something I strive for on an abdomen made with a seal dubbing brush. Not being argumentative here ... just adhering to your signature line ;) .
Some of the same morons who throw their trash around in National parks also vote. That alone would explain the state of American politics. ~ John Gierach, "Still Life with Brook Trout"
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Re: Using Dubbing Brushes

Post by William Anderson » Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:07 am

tie2fish wrote:I've seen period diagrams that suggest tying it in up front and covering it with thread wraps on the way to the back. But, I found that having it hanging there while tying in tags, tails and/or ribs only complicated matters, so I tie it in at the rear after I've got the other stuff attached.
This makes perfect sense when you're tying a fly which may require a tail, or rib, or tag, But Ruard provided a twisted wire dubbing brush and there are no other components to be included. Whatever the spun body, silk and dubbing or wire and dubbing, it makes sense to tie it in after the other parts are secured. My reason for tying the wire in behind the hackle and bringing it down the shank is that the twisted wire is easier for me to hold level and steady along the shank and giving wraps down and back makes a smoother underbody for the wire brush as it comes back up. Also, without a thorax, the tie in point can be secured with a few wraps to cover the clipped wire brush, and you have to do the same once the wire brush reaches the hackle again. That's a potentially messy termination that isn't concealed. Nit picky.
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Re: Using Dubbing Brushes

Post by Ruard » Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:18 pm

Nice Fly William. Thanks you explained the way you tie in the brush. On most flies I make a thorax to use it as a Kick for the hackle and I tie my hackle in with the tip, wind it forward (1 mm) and tie it of.

Greeting
There will allways be a solution.
http://www.aflyinholland.nl
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