What size gut for blind eyed hooks??

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Bazzer69
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What size gut for blind eyed hooks??

Post by Bazzer69 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:00 am

I've tied salmon flies in these past using blind eyed hooks but never trout flies. Now that I have a few hooks, thank you Robert, I'm going to tie some for our little Brook and River Trout Tiers ( there is still time to join in the fun). The smallest gut that I have is 5lb test, I've not measured the diameter yet. Is this typically what was used yesteryear? I personally want to fish with my flies and yes I know I can use monofilament, but to be authentic I want to use gut, or even maybe horsehair.
So has anyone got any recommendations as to what I might need?
Thanks
Barry
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Re: What size gut for blind eyed hooks??

Post by wsbailey » Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:37 pm

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Re: What size gut for blind eyed hooks??

Post by wsbailey » Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:56 pm

Skues considered Cutcliffe's fly tying instructions to be among the clearest in the literature.

https://archive.org/stream/artoftroutfi ... 2/mode/2up
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Re: What size gut for blind eyed hooks??

Post by Bazzer69 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:55 pm

wsbailey wrote:Skues considered Cutcliffe's fly tying instructions to be among the clearest in the literature.

https://archive.org/stream/artoftroutfi ... 2/mode/2up
Thanks for the reference . I've downloaded it and will read it later, but at first glance it doesn't answer my question of a suitable sized gut. I have 30ft of Japanese silk gut rated at 4lbs so I'll give that a try for the time being. I'll leave the leader end unknotted since I haven't decided how to join it to the leader. I suspect it will be loop to loop
Barry
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Re: What size gut for blind eyed hooks??

Post by wsbailey » Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:10 pm

I would think hook wire diameter or a bit less.
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Re: What size gut for blind eyed hooks??

Post by Bazzer69 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:23 pm

wsbailey wrote:I would think hook wire diameter or a bit less.
Thanks for the links, the article about the history of gut is very interesting, but it's left me wondering how they make drawn gut, or silk, in such long lengths? My cards of Japanese gut are 30 ft. I'm going to test some for diameter and strength.
Barry
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Re: What size gut for blind eyed hooks??

Post by wsbailey » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:59 pm

The Japanese gut in long lengths was manufactured. Natural gut can only reach lengths of 18" at the most. Natural gut leaders therefore require a lot of knots. From Dr. Herd's :http://www.flyfishinghistory.com/

"By the end of the nineteenth century, natural or "undrawn" gut had had its day, and it was becoming increasingly difficult to find it. Undrawn gut was almost impossible to find by the beginning of the Second World War, at which time most gut was being sourced from Spain, and the familiar "x" system of grading drawn gut was well established. In 1909 or 1910, a material called "Japanese Gut" or "Gut Substitute" made an appearance. There were various brand names for the material, including "Telerana Nova," "Padrona," "Jatgut," and "Subgut." The basis of this material was silk from silkworm cocoons; this was made into a thread of the required thickness and then boiled in a mixture of animal glue and an extract of seaweed. The end-product was chemically dried, and polished, but the results were unpredictable, to say the least, and there was considerable scope for poor quality copies. Nevertheless, given the problems with the supply of natural gut, Japanese gut became a popular leader material."
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Re: What size gut for blind eyed hooks??

Post by Bazzer69 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:24 am

wsbailey wrote:The Japanese gut in long lengths was manufactured. Natural gut can only reach lengths of 18" at the most. Natural gut leaders therefore require a lot of knots. From Dr. Herd's :http://www.flyfishinghistory.com/

"By the end of the nineteenth century, natural or "undrawn" gut had had its day, and it was becoming increasingly difficult to find it. Undrawn gut was almost impossible to find by the beginning of the Second World War, at which time most gut was being sourced from Spain, and the familiar "x" system of grading drawn gut was well established. In 1909 or 1910, a material called "Japanese Gut" or "Gut Substitute" made an appearance. There were various brand names for the material, including "Telerana Nova," "Padrona," "Jatgut," and "Subgut." The basis of this material was silk from silkworm cocoons; this was made into a thread of the required thickness and then boiled in a mixture of animal glue and an extract of seaweed. The end-product was chemically dried, and polished, but the results were unpredictable, to say the least, and there was considerable scope for poor quality copies. Nevertheless, given the problems with the supply of natural gut, Japanese gut became a popular leader material."
Thanks, I'm never to old to learn. As I said I'm going to conduct a test on my "gut " and I'll let you know the result. I'll tank test it as well and publish the results.
Barry
If you under thirty and don’t vote labour, you haven’t got a heart, if your over thirty and you don’t vote conservative, you haven’t got a head.
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Re: What size gut for blind eyed hooks??

Post by tie2fish » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:30 am

I'm no expert, but I'm thinking that tensile strength testing done on dry gut would be essentially meaningless. It (gut) changes significantly when it gets wet, and I'm guessing that because of increased elastic properties, it is stronger when wet.
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Re: What size gut for blind eyed hooks??

Post by letumgo » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:40 pm

If you are interested in seeing some traditional patterns tied with silk leaders, look thru the following thread. Many of the flies shown in the post have silk leaders.

John Shaner's Yorkshire Spider Collection:
http://www.flymphforum.com/viewtopic.ph ... 5983&start
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