"I dubbed Leisenring fashion"

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FliTrap
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"I dubbed Leisenring fashion"

Post by FliTrap » Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:44 pm

Can any one provide some explanation of this method of dubbing?
I's see it note a few times and wondering the method and benefit!
Thank, in advance!
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Re: "I dubbed Leisenring fashion"

Post by letumgo » Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:02 pm

Here is a sketch that Mark (Soft-hackle) created to help explain the Leisenring dubbing method. You can think of it as a silk dubbing brush.
DubCard.gif
DubCard.gif (23.26 KiB) Viewed 4791 times
The following text was written by Mark. I am just copying it here to help answer your question.

"Leisenring Method of Dubbing; This is done off the the fly and tied on, later.

" Take a piece of fly tying silk nine or 10 inches long, of the desired color which you wish to show up in the body undercolor,and wax it well (use good dubbing wax, but nothing overly tacky.) Lay it lengthwise on your left leg right in the middle on top, from your kneecap back towards your body.

Let one-third of the thread hang down over your knee in front out of the way onto your lower leg. Now take the dubbing to be spun and spread it along the waxed silk thread, starting about two inches from the end of the thread nearest your hip.

Spread it sparsely at first, evenly and gradually increase the amount in order to have an even tapered body for your fly. About one-and-one-eighth inches is long enough for a size 12 or 13 hook, but after spinning a few and using them you will be able to judge the desired lengths for various hook sizes pretty accurately yourself.

Now we have our silk lying in a straight line and our dubbing spread out properly to make a neat, tapered body. Now place the thumb of you left hand on the bare silk about one inch from the end nearest your hip. Place the second finger of your left hand on the bare silk beyond the dubbing toward the knee.

With the thumb and first finger of your right hand grasp the silk hanging over the knee; bring the silk up and pass it or pull it under the second finger of your left hand, being careful not to release the pressure off the silk being held down by thumb and finger of left hand. Keep the thread and dubbing straight and tight.

Now that you have your silk pulled under the second finger, place the first finger of your left hand on top of both threads and within one-half inch of the dubbing. You know have the thumb, first finger and second finger of your left hand on the silk. Remove the second finger, keeping a good pressure on the ends of the thread beneath the dubbing with your first finger and thumb.

Holding the end of the loose thread between the thumb and forefinger of your right hand, bring this thread down directly on top of the bottom thread so that the dubbing is between these two well waxed threads. Before touching it to the dubbing, however, stretch it tight and make sure the top thread is absolutely in line with the bottom thread.

Now use the second finger of your right hand to press down the top thread against the dubbing directly in front of your left thumb. Hold it there, remove the left thumb, slide the finger (note: the second finger of your right hand) toward the two loose ends of silk and replace your left thumb.

At this point remove your right hand from the scene of operations and observe the two silk threads with your dubbing between them, the first finger of your left hand holding the threads down at the end nearest your knee and your left thumb pressing down just behind the dubbing.

Take the doubled end of silk at your knee between the thumb and first finger of your right hand and pull at it in order to get the loop out straight. Let it go and lay flat down on your leg. Then take your thumb (note: left hand thumb) and put it on top of the doubled silk at right angles to it. Press down lightly and starting with the ball of your thumb, pull your thumb across the silk, thus rolling the silk that is under it. Give it two or three such rolls. holding it down each time, until it is twisted tight.

After you give it the last roll, catch it up and give it another roll or twist between the thumb and forefinger stretch it towards the knee and lift the left fore finger straight up off the silk, keeping the thumb down tightly on the opposite end. As you lift the left fore finger the silk and dubbing will twist into a rope, so to speak.

Being careful to keep the thread twisted and taut, catch up the threads under your left thumb and twist them in the opposite direction. You now can take it up and twist it.

You can store bodies made like this on cards that have slits cut on opposite sides. Slip the looped end in one slit, and the loose ends into the other. They will stay like this till you are ready to use them. When you get ready to tie onto the hook, use the ends, not the loop end. If need be, you can twist it more once you get it tied to the hook. What is nice is that you can make the fur lay lengthwise, across the thread, , and depending on how heavy you dub it, can get real buggy results."

I know this sounds like a very labored process, but once you do it a couple times, it's not really that difficult. In this way you can make-up bodies or dubbing brushes ahead of time for use, later. I believe that using this method gives results that are not comparable to other methods.

Once you get the brush complete, you can store the brush on cards with slits cut opposite each other on the sides of the card. This keeps them together. If you use the brush immediately, then tie it to the shank by the open ends, not the looped end. Then it can be twisted more, once on the shank."
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Re: "I dubbed Leisenring fashion"

Post by fly_fischa » Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:07 pm

Thanks for that Ray, I look forward to giving this a go ;)
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Re: "I dubbed Leisenring fashion"

Post by Soft-hackle » Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:10 pm

Thanks for posting that info, Ray. Here's a link to those instructions with illustrations.

http://www.libstudio.com/Leisenring

A Clark's dubbing block can also be used for a similar result.

Mark
"I have the highest respect for the skilled wet-fly fisherman, as he has mastered an art of very great difficulty.” Edward R. Hewitt

http://www.libstudio.com/FS&S
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Re: "I dubbed Leisenring fashion"

Post by letumgo » Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:11 pm

The thanks should go entirely to Mark. I was just reposting his excellent description and drawing.

Mark - You may want to pin this post some where on the site. This question seems to come up fairly regularly.
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Re: "I dubbed Leisenring fashion"

Post by letumgo » Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:13 pm

That's the link I was looking for, but could not remember where I had seen it. Thanks again, Mark.
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Re: "I dubbed Leisenring fashion"

Post by Hans Weilenmann » Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:04 am

Mark,
I believe that using this method gives results that are not comparable to other methods.
Jim Slattery used that same sentence when we sat down to tie some flymphs in a hotel room in Dayton, Ohio (it made a pretty mundane work trip to a US office much more enjoyable) but I have a hard time understanding what is meant by it. Not the meaning of the actual words, but how to translate that into a real-world explanation.

Care to elaborate? Or illustrate maybe? Where would it, say, differentiate from split thread dubbing approach in look&feel result?

Thanks,
Hans W
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Re: "I dubbed Leisenring fashion"

Post by mvendon » Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:18 pm

Some side by side comparison pic's showing the different methods and how much different they look would be good too! Wet vs dry would help even more.

Regards,
Mark
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Re: "I dubbed Leisenring fashion"

Post by Soft-hackle » Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:33 pm

To start, this explanation was written in 1999 for a fly tying class I taught at that time. At that particular point, everyone was dubbing flies to the tying thread, which was the prescribed technique for dubbing dry flies. Many of the students knew this or were familiar with this technique. I myself use it for dry flies and occasionally on wets for certain applications. However it was and still IS my feeling that for tying wets, trapping the fur and hair between two pieces of thread is especially effective for wet flies with dubbed bodies.

A dubbing loop (not quite as good), split thread and the Leisenring method produce similar results. The concentration, till recently, was dry fly fishing, and it still is to some extent. Fortunately the techniques used to trap dubbing between two pieces of thread are more widely known and used today for wet flies.

That said, I can also clarify that ; First I am in no big rush to tie my flies. Anyone that watches me tie will tell you, I'm in no hurry. Second, I myself find that I get better results from dubbing in this manner. I find it gives me better control of the materials. For example, I find it easier to control the spread of the dubbing on the thread and its concentration. Also I have more control of the orientation of the fibers of the dubbing as it lies on the thread. I also like the fact that it seems easier for me using the Leisenring method to dub on tying thread that is not the same color as the tying thread. I know it's not impossible to do this tying on the fly, but for me, it's less cumbersome than having all these doodads hanging off the fly. I simply tie on the pre-made brush and wrap.

I have no trouble putting together a fly using this technique and getting the appearance I need. I have also come to do this technique efficiently without much hassle or fuss. I honestly admit I am no Hans Weilenmann , and I have not mastered the art of split thread dubbing to the extent you have, Hans. The thing is I really don't need to unless I'm playing "Beat the Clock" or tying for the market.

So, I guess I should revise that statement in that explanation to say, " I believe that using this method gives ME results that are not comparable to other methods."

That's it!
Mark
"I have the highest respect for the skilled wet-fly fisherman, as he has mastered an art of very great difficulty.” Edward R. Hewitt

http://www.libstudio.com/FS&S
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Re: "I dubbed Leisenring fashion"

Post by Hans Weilenmann » Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:44 pm

*chuckle*

Mark, I merely posted a query, it was not intended as something a defense was needed against 8-)

I was puzzled at the time Jim stated it, and we had a few minutes on the subject before moving to more important activities, such as tying some flies.

Seeing it in print in the post merely re-kindled my curiosity.

Flyting is, or at least in my mind should be, about choices made. However, in order to be in a position to make a choice, one first has to have a choice.

You made yours, and all the more power to you. What works for the goose, may not work for the gander.

If the dubbing block technique works best for you, than that is the best technique for you. Today, and maybe next year also. Or maybe next year another approach may offer you advantages and/or a better result. I know I have moved between techniques over the years, either because new choices presented themselves, or my skill level expanded.

Stay safe, and roll...

Hans W
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