FLYMPH FORUM

wsbailey wrote:Datus Proper was one of the few tyers to recommend American game birds. Leisenring was tethered to British tradition even though his flies represented American insects. While not exactly the same; several of our game birds make good substitutes for the game birds in British angling literature. Side by side the feathers may look different but on a hook are hard to tell apart.

I think that most frequently used British game bird have North American sources, or nealyr so. Hungarian Partridge was introduced long ago, as were starlings. Wilson's snipe was long considered the same species as the common snipe. It's now considered a different species based on the fact that the number of feathers in the tail differs by between the two -- hardly important for tying purposes. Similarly, the common gallinule was long considered to be the same species as the moorhen (waterhen). Both the snipe and the gallinule are legal game birds here, it's just that few people bother to hunt them. The red grouse is the same bird as the willow ptarmigan, common in Alaska.
There's no real reason these feathers shouldn't be more readily available.

OTOH, I seem find myself mallard coverts more and more of late because they're easy to come by.

Yes, there's no real reason not to substitute feathers if necessary.

Legal to hunt and legal to sell can differ. For example, where I live there's a limit of 25 coot per day and 50 to posses (last time I looked). But federal law won't allow the sale. Luckily, they are easy to get from the UK. Some of the birds I'm talking about are landrail, lapwing and tawny owl.

Howdy All;

Some of you may remember when I first moved here to N.M. The Sand HillCrans that visit here for the Winter
are of course migratory and thus covered by Fed. Laws. When I asked if it were permissible to collect feathers
that molted from the birds the answer was a rather emfatic NO. Seems I'd have to get the hunting license along
with the Fed. permits and Stamps then kill one to gather the feathers. I did ask the guy if he was serious, that
I actually could be arrested for picking up the feathers and instead had to kill one to get the feathers. Truly, truth
IS stranger then fiction.

hank

There's no legal issues involved with starlings and house sparrows. I once found a frozen, juvenile starling. It felt good not having the least concern about keeping it. I find it odd that a company can legally destroy an entire ecosystem but picking up some feathers can land you in prison.

wsbailey wrote:Legal to hunt and legal to sell can differ. For example, where I live there's a limit of 25 coot per day and 50 to posses (last time I looked). But federal law won't allow the sale. Luckily, they are easy to get from the UK. Some of the birds I'm talking about are landrail, lapwing and tawny owl.

I don't think they're much used in the UK, either, nowadays.

Leisenring used landrail wings in a fly or two. Chukar tail feathers have a similar color. Starlings are now completely protected in England but N. Ireland and Scotland allow exceptions for agriculture.

wsbailey wrote: I find it odd that a company can legally destroy an entire ecosystem but picking up some feathers can land you in prison.

Amen!

dd

daringduffer wrote: ↑Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:56 am

WiFlyfisher wrote:I think ages is getting to me... I definitely prefer bronze hooks versus black nickle hooks.

Maybe it is age, me too am older than last week, but I have the same preference for bronze hooks. I bet your experience is much more vast than mine, but confidence doesn't need to be based on science. In all walks of life, sound confidence is a good thing. When tying and fishing it is essential. (This last statement isn't an opinion, it is a fact). And that is relevant for choice of material and their sources too. If you want a discussion about ultimate choice I will have difficulties to participate

dd

This thread really took a few turns. Very interesting. John, I’m so glad you linked the earlier thread on hook color. What a treat to read John Shaner wax on about hook color and literature. I don’t know anyone with a more severe hook fetish or more knowledge on the subject.

I still stand by my 2013 comments and I’m certain I can’t always say that. I am tying more on nickel colored hooks, mostly Fulling Mill hooks. But my go to are still middle of the road bronze shades. They just blend with materials in a way that are pleasing.

So here’s where things have taken a turn in recent years. It’s still my opinion that a trout finds a positive trigger in seeing a fly as food and ignores the hook, but I have made a significant shift in covering more of the hook in material. I followed a lot of contemporary tiers in my earlier years, like Hans, for instance. And there was an aesthetic that required a real minimalist approach, definitely warranted when tying delicate wet flies, but I know I was erring on less and avoiding more. I like my bodies longer, fuller and tapered more in the past couple years. It’s a subtle shift but it goes towards a theory that while trout ignore the hook, offering more hook surface doesn’t get provide any advantage. I’m tying on smaller hooks wrapping longer hackle. I’m catching many more fish in recent seasons but there are dozens of reasons for that and none include hook selection.

I’m digging the longer, barbless points found on the more contemporary hooks. They have an elegance that nicely compliments a soft hackled fly.

I think I need to get my camera out. It’s no fun talking about this stuff without visuals. And thank you, John, for making that a possibility again.