Tying Question

A great place to discuss various patterns and tying methods for wingless wet flies, Yorkshire spiders, Flymphs and other patterns tied with soft hackles.

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dj1212
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Re: Tying Question

Post by dj1212 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:40 pm

Thanks much for the welcome. I've been interested in soft hackles, flymphs, spiders, what ever you want to call them for a long time. I've taken some good fish from heavily fished water with this type of fly when they would take nothing else. Someone mentioned Pritt and I think this is where I saw a couple patterns calling for bodies dubbed with herl. It was Pritt or Edmonds and Lee. Maybe it's so that when these books were published dubbed had a different meaning. Makes me think of where the term "Dun", as used to describe a color, originated.

Thanks again for the replies.
wsbailey
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Re: Tying Question

Post by wsbailey » Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:21 pm

Fly tying goes back to at least 1496 and after so much time the meaning of words can change. Dub originally meant dress. In the US we are fly tyers but in England they call themselves fly dressers. The modern meaning of dub wouldn't make sense with regard to herl. Dun is another subject that can be confusing. Ask a fly tyer today and he will tell you that dun is bluish gray most likely. This is a description of dun from a fly fishing published in 1864:
“The proper dun colour is not easily described. It seems to partake of brown and white, a shade of red and yellow, with the slightest tinge of silvery grey”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dun_gene

As a dyer; color is what I do.
dj1212
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Re: Tying Question

Post by dj1212 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:16 pm

Looked again at a pattern list from Pritt. Here's the dressing of one fly with the use of dubbed hurl.

2. Little Black:
Hook: 0, short. (#15)
Wings: hackled with a feather from a Black Cock's hackle, or Starling's neck
Body: purple silk, dubbed sparingly with Magpie hurl
Head: purple.
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Re: Tying Question

Post by letumgo » Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:54 am

Carl (Oldhat) recently posted this pattern. Perhaps he can share some tips in how he ties the fly.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7880
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Old Hat
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Re: Tying Question

Post by Old Hat » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:10 am

This exact question recently came up on Rob Smith's Facebook site.

The method described is generally accepted as being slightly twisted with the thread and then wrapped up the hook similar to what Stewart describes how his spiders are tied...slightly twisting the hackle with the thread and wrapping back.

I'm sure they weren't so exact back then and the term "dub" was just a way to describe covering the hook shank with a material. As today, probably a lot of different methods being used.

I noticed for this pattern Mr. Smith wraps the herl forward and ribs it with the thread. That's what I did on the example I posted.

I actually tied that pattern in response to Bob Smith's claim that pheasant tailed dyed black was not a good substitute for magpie because it didn't have the green coloration. After posting the pattern with the PT, that I shared here, Bob was gentleman enough to say that he stood corrected. Magpie is not legal to have in the US and the general agreement was that Muscovy Duck tail feathers were the best legal substitute here. Although I think good quality PT dyed black is most likely still easier to source and a good sub.
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dj1212
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Re: Tying Question

Post by dj1212 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:34 am

Not to drag this topic on and on but I did notice in the list of patterns from Pitt, same list I got the Little Black pattern from, he uses the term dubbed with fur also. So it may be the term dubbed means wrapped onto the hook or dressed. Also noticed in the old pattern lists the term hurled as in using herl for the head, etc. Sometimes as with fur just the term twisted onto silk thread.

Just my opinion but I think these old patterns take fly tying to a higher level. With the use of color or blending colors and translucence. Add the color of hackle feathers used and creating the illusion of a live insect. The soft fibers giving the fly some motion even in slower currents. Good stuff.
wsbailey
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Re: Tying Question

Post by wsbailey » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:27 am

If you look at this book you can zoom in on each fly pictured. Maybe not as good as a photograph but it is original.

https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/ite ... 9/mode/1up
dj1212
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Re: Tying Question

Post by dj1212 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:55 pm

wsbailey wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:27 am
If you look at this book you can zoom in on each fly pictured. Maybe not as good as a photograph but it is original.

https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/ite ... 9/mode/1up
Thanks for the link. Hadn't seen this before. Excellent.
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Re: Tying Question

Post by William Anderson » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:42 am

This thread certainly reminds me of what I love about this place.

And a warm welcome to the forum.

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