Proportions for Traditional North Country Spiders

Moderators: William Anderson, letumgo

User avatar
tie2fish
Posts: 5072
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:11 am
Location: Harford County, MD

Re: Proportions for Traditional North Country Spiders

Post by tie2fish » Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:10 am

After years of tying dries and nymphs almost exclusively, acclimating to the longer hackle of NC spiders and other soft hackle flies was something I had to deal with as well, John. Now I actually favor longer hackles (and more dense ones as well). A lot of this came to be while I was learning to tie JL/Hidy-style flymphs and it has carried over to the other soft hackle styles.
Some of the same morons who throw their trash around in National parks also vote. That alone would explain the state of American politics. ~ John Gierach, "Still Life with Brook Trout"
joaniebo
Posts: 685
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:24 pm

Re: Proportions for Traditional North Country Spiders

Post by joaniebo » Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:05 pm

John

There's various opinions as to what the "correct" body length, hackle length / density, etc. should be and if you do some further research, you'll find that there are / were different preferences in the appearance of the soft hackles / spiders fished in the UK. Northern UK, Wales, Scotland, etc. fly tyers had different opinions and dressed their flies as popular in their area.

My advice is not to worry as to what the body / hackle length is on the flies you dress..... do what you feel comfortable with, what your fishing style is and the local waters you fish.

That being said, I tend to make the bodies almost the full length of the hook shank, (sometimes even halfway down the hook bend) and, depending on the hackle being used, 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 hackle turns of "longish" hackles.
Cheers

Bob
Trifly
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:18 pm
Location: Firestone Colorado

Re: Proportions for Traditional North Country Spiders

Post by Trifly » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:31 pm

Right behind the barb is my sweet spot.

They can hate me in England all they want for it.
Attachments
20181128_142818.jpg
20181128_142818.jpg (47.42 KiB) Viewed 3353 times
User avatar
Old Hat
Posts: 4204
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:24 am
Location: Where Deet is a Cologne
Contact:

Re: Proportions for Traditional North Country Spiders

Post by Old Hat » Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:01 am

I think it is important to learn the traditions and just as important to not limit ourselves by them.

To be honest. I don't worry too much about hackle length for spiders and soft hackles within a certain range. I haven't noticed any significant difference in fishing or catching with the many traditional spider presentations. That being said, I do purposefully tie longer hackles for Stillwater spider patterns where I take the hackle out up to 2x the length of the hook. That is because I am often short stripping the fly and it gives a bit more swimming action to the pattern which is prevalent in stillwater insects. Also, the opposite is true if I am tying a pattern that is designed to be fished deeper and more nymph-like. In this case I'm not trying to mimic wings, just legs, so I purposefully tie those patterns with noticeably shorter hackle.

This method is personal choice as should all our tying be based on our own experiences in our microcosm of this world. But, it is also important to understand the traditional components of tying and fishing these flies and not forget or throw those traditions out the window because we have found another method that works better for us or because we just don't believe in "rules". Learn and understand the history, foundations and traditions of your chosen slice of this sport then with that knowledge build upon it with your own experiences. This promotes creativity built upon solid, proven foundations and preserves history.
I hate it when I think I'm buying organic vegetables, and when I get home I discover they are just regular donuts.
http://www.oldhatflytying.com
upstatetrout
Posts: 379
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:47 am
Location: New York

Re: Proportions for Traditional North Country Spiders

Post by upstatetrout » Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:11 pm

John. It will make you happy. You love to tie! Please post.

Tom
"We argue to see who is right but we discuss to see what is right"
User avatar
PhilA
Posts: 200
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:27 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Proportions for Traditional North Country Spiders

Post by PhilA » Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:47 pm

WiFlyfisher wrote: Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:06 am Besides, that will make PhilA happy.
John,
I am indeed happy. I was fearing tungsten beads and a right-angled jig hook.
Phil
upstatetrout
Posts: 379
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:47 am
Location: New York

Re: Proportions for Traditional North Country Spiders

Post by upstatetrout » Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:06 am

1130180850a.jpg
1130180850a.jpg (125.25 KiB) Viewed 2870 times
The Dotterel Blow tied on Daiichi 1480 hooks size 12, 14, and 16. I think that this picture represents reasonable North Country Fly proportions.
The hackle on this fly calls for Dotterel.This is unobtainable for me. I substituted a inner covert feather from a pair of Asian Jay wings that I picked up at the International Fly Tying Symposium this year in New Jersey.

Tom
Last edited by upstatetrout on Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"We argue to see who is right but we discuss to see what is right"
joaniebo
Posts: 685
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:24 pm

Re: Proportions for Traditional North Country Spiders

Post by joaniebo » Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:18 am

WiFlyfisher wrote: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:06 pm
PhilA wrote: Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:47 pm
WiFlyfisher wrote: Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:06 am Besides, that will make PhilA happy.
John,
I am indeed happy. I was fearing tungsten beads and a right-angled jig hook.
Phil
Phil,

Just think, some day your kids' kids will be reading old fly fishing books about beadhead nymphs and jig hooks. :lol: :lol:

John
John

Like these?

Bob
Attachments
Bead Thoraxed Hare's Ear SH Nymphs.jpg
Bead Thoraxed Hare's Ear SH Nymphs.jpg (143.09 KiB) Viewed 2847 times
Bead Thoraxed Pheasant Tail SH Nymph - Natural.jpg
Bead Thoraxed Pheasant Tail SH Nymph - Natural.jpg (110.13 KiB) Viewed 2847 times
Greenwell
Posts: 346
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:05 pm

Re: Proportions for Traditional North Country Spiders

Post by Greenwell » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:20 am

This is a photo of my Partridge & Hares' Ear, size 14 TMC 3769, as I dress it now.  The hackle is both longer and fuller than tends to be current for must tiers.  My rationale for these proportions comes from examining and replicating traditional Spiders. Personal experience with flies dressed so is that they are, at least for me, both more effective and longer lived. (The colors should be a bit richer but for some reason look a little washed out, especially the hackle which is brown partridge back and not gray neck.)
This is a photo of my Partridge & Hares' Ear, size 14 TMC 3769, as I dress it now. The hackle is both longer and fuller than tends to be current for must tiers. My rationale for these proportions comes from examining and replicating traditional Spiders. Personal experience with flies dressed so is that they are, at least for me, both more effective and longer lived. (The colors should be a bit richer but for some reason look a little washed out, especially the hackle which is brown partridge back and not gray neck.)
John4.jpg (109.06 KiB) Viewed 2841 times
User avatar
Old Hat
Posts: 4204
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:24 am
Location: Where Deet is a Cologne
Contact:

Re: Proportions for Traditional North Country Spiders

Post by Old Hat » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:37 am

That looks exquisite John!

Also, to note, one thing that needs to be considered is the hook that each person uses. You can look at diagrammed proportions on one hook, but remember, those proportions are for that hook. What looks like a long hackle on the Partridge Spider hook may not look like long hackle on another style.
I hate it when I think I'm buying organic vegetables, and when I get home I discover they are just regular donuts.
http://www.oldhatflytying.com
Post Reply