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Re: Timeless fly tying advice

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:42 pm
by PhilA
WiFlyfisher wrote: Sat Dec 01, 2018 4:51 pmI think you have more copies of Proper's book than I have Whiting Coachman Brown rooster capes.
That's not possible. The only person with more Coachman Brown capes than you was Mr. Tom Bosworth, the former royal carriage driver. (Google it if puzzled)


WiFlyfisher wrote: Sat Dec 01, 2018 4:51 pm Thank you, but I would pay you for it!!
John
No, I don't think so Mr. Webmaster. You've earned it. --Phil

Re: Timeless fly tying advice

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:00 am
by Greenwell
Phil,

I'll agree with most of the names on your list of additions, particularly Harding who was so far ahead of his time. He died before he could finish his second book which Skues found particularly tragic.

Most of what Marinaro published was foresaged by Harding many years earlier. (It's interesting that in Brian Clarke's and John Goddard's The Trout and the Fly Harding is mentioned once and Marinaro is mentioned twice and then only very briefly. Most of their book borrows heavily from the two earlier authors but gives them essentially no recognition. Harding was of course long gone but a friend of mine who knew Vince very closely said that he never got over the snub.)

OK, Ok, I have the same number of copies of Proper! But I do have the very rare English printing and the Easton Press Edition! LOL! Crazy book people..............

Re: Timeless fly tying advice

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:51 pm
by upstatetrout
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I have to agree What the Trout Said is a must have.If I travel(fishing) the book is always in my trailer. Mine is a cherished copy as it was given by Datus to my friend Catskill Bill Kelly who in turn passed it on to me before his departure.

Tom

Re: Timeless fly tying advice

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:23 pm
by PhilA
WiFlyfisher wrote: Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:08 am(Royal Coachman / family of Royal fly patterns has a wonderful history all the way up to the Cross' Quack Royal. I always have some Royal Trudes on me, it has saved many a summer outing out West.)
WiFlyfisher John,
A chapter of Paul Schullery's book Royal Coachman is devoted to the history of the Royal Coachman. Tom Bosworth, carriage driver for English Kings and Queens, is credited with designing the Coachman wet fly in the early 1800s, but the Royal Coachman was the brainchild of Mr. John Haily of New York City in about 1878. Haily was a professional fly tyer who tied flies for the Charles F. Orvis Company. Charles' brother L.C. Orvis suggested the snappy name "Royal Coachman". Schullery describes the Royal Coachman as "the first great American fly pattern". Thus, I believe the Royal lineage -- or at least the "Royal" name -- began with Haily and Orvis.

Datus Proper points out that the only difference between a Royal Coachman and an ant pattern contained in Aldam's A Quaint Treatise in 1876 is the color of the wing!

Greenwell John, is this true? You are the only source I know of with access to Aldam's book. Even scanned digital copies are unavailable despite the pre-copyright publication date.

Re: Timeless fly tying advice

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:50 pm
by Greenwell
Here's the Mayfly page from my copy. The pencil annotations appear to be from the original owner and while such things usually bother me these actually add something to the book.
Here's the Mayfly page from my copy. The pencil annotations appear to be from the original owner and while such things usually bother me these actually add something to the book.
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Re: Timeless fly tying advice

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:58 pm
by Greenwell
March Browns and "Spring or Dottrill Dun."  The flies and materials are in almost pristine condition despite being 143 years old.  I've seen 4 other copies over the years and in this copy the flies are about the best I've seen.
March Browns and "Spring or Dottrill Dun." The flies and materials are in almost pristine condition despite being 143 years old. I've seen 4 other copies over the years and in this copy the flies are about the best I've seen.
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Re: Timeless fly tying advice

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:04 pm
by Greenwell
The quality of the flies and the dressing skills of the tyer(s) is outstanding and they really need to be seen under magnification to fully appreciate them.<br />All the hooks are blued rather than bronzed, as was common at the time.
The quality of the flies and the dressing skills of the tyer(s) is outstanding and they really need to be seen under magnification to fully appreciate them.
All the hooks are blued rather than bronzed, as was common at the time.
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Re: Timeless fly tying advice

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:12 pm
by Greenwell
And here is your &quot;Common Ant&quot; fly, #14.  Yes, there is little difference between it and the RC other than the white wing and golden pheasant tippet, originally barred wood duck, of the Royal Coachman.
And here is your "Common Ant" fly, #14. Yes, there is little difference between it and the RC other than the white wing and golden pheasant tippet, originally barred wood duck, of the Royal Coachman.
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Re: Timeless fly tying advice

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:58 pm
by PhilA
John,
Beautiful flies! I especially like that March Brown. Which, if any, of these flies are on eyed hooks? --Phil

Re: Timeless fly tying advice

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:34 pm
by Greenwell
The two mayflies shown on the first page I posted are the ones on the Hall's Snecky Limerick eyed hooks.