Hooks used on Leisenring & Hidy Dressings

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William Anderson
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Re: Hooks used on Leisenring & Hidy Dressings

Post by William Anderson » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:04 pm

There's a lot of good information here so I'll just add my own experience with both Leisenring and Hidy flies. Lance has be very generous sharing pics and sometimes access to hundreds of flies from each of these gents, as part of his research and efforts at confirm attributes for both. It should be noted that collections of Leisenring and Hidy flies likely represent a short period in each of their tying histories, and it would be weird if either tier didn't go through phases in preferences like we all do. If someone picked up one of my boxes out of my tying area, it would represent a shorter window of my skill and preferences, but wouldn't offer a sample of all my preferences over the 20 years I've been tying. With that said, in all the flies I looked at in boxes and in wallets, Hidy seemed to be about 50/50 in his use of up-eye vs down-eye hooks in the wallet he carried near the end of his fishing career. I don't recall many up-eye hooks on Leisenring's flies. It's just what I saw, so take it for what it's worth.

REFERENCE PHOTOS FROM PETE HIDY's FLY WALLET: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7374
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Re: Hooks used on Leisenring & Hidy Dressings

Post by daringduffer » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:31 pm

Jim Slattery wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:40 pm
Leisenring preferred Messeena hooks.
Messeena hooks were bought by Venaird"s.
According to Davy Wotton The hooks were in the basement of Veniards for decades.
A flood came along and ruined them before I could salvage them from the basement.
Jim
Wasn't Messeena a wholesale company just as Veniards? And Leisenring sourced his hooks from Messeena who sourced them in Redditch?

dd
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Re: Hooks used on Leisenring & Hidy Dressings

Post by UC Steve » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:56 am

UC Steve wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:20 pm
Of course Leisenring preferred turned-eye hooks, remember, he, as most anglers in his time, fastened his fly to the tippet with a snell or turle knot, which requires a turned eye to work properly. Leisenring's hackling method allows for a tiny head with no effort, yet, we see he built a long, conical head which, I believe, was purposeful, to make room for the turle. A hook with a turned eye must be fastened with a snell or turle to hover & track properly. Tied directly to the eye, with anything other than a loop-knot, the turned eye will serve to lever the fly off balance, causing it to 'screw'. Modern tyers who tie directly to the eye would do a lot better to learn the turle knot, or tie with straight-eye hooks, as the Yorkshire purists prefer.
Sorry Bob. My bad. Reread the OP & now realize the above rant is a bit off-topic. I'm blaming onset dementia. Carry on.
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Re: Hooks used on Leisenring & Hidy Dressings

Post by fly_fischa » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:50 am

UC Steve wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:56 am
UC Steve wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:20 pm
Of course Leisenring preferred turned-eye hooks, remember, he, as most anglers in his time, fastened his fly to the tippet with a snell or turle knot, which requires a turned eye to work properly. Leisenring's hackling method allows for a tiny head with no effort, yet, we see he built a long, conical head which, I believe, was purposeful, to make room for the turle. A hook with a turned eye must be fastened with a snell or turle to hover & track properly. Tied directly to the eye, with anything other than a loop-knot, the turned eye will serve to lever the fly off balance, causing it to 'screw'. Modern tyers who tie directly to the eye would do a lot better to learn the turle knot, or tie with straight-eye hooks, as the Yorkshire purists prefer.
Sorry Bob. My bad. Reread the OP & now realize the above rant is a bit off-topic. I'm blaming onset dementia. Carry on.
I find this interesting especially your point of view regarding the long conical head being purposeful to make room for the turle knot. Like you've already mentioned a tiny head or almost non existent head depending on the skill of the tier is easy to achieve with this method of hackling. So my Q is why would you bother building a long conical head to create space for the turle when you can leave a bare shank at the eye similar to the space left by some catskill tiers?
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Re: Hooks used on Leisenring & Hidy Dressings

Post by UC Steve » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:28 pm

fly_fischa wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:50 am
UC Steve wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:56 am
UC Steve wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:20 pm
Of course Leisenring preferred turned-eye hooks, remember, he, as most anglers in his time, fastened his fly to the tippet with a snell or turle knot, which requires a turned eye to work properly. Leisenring's hackling method allows for a tiny head with no effort, yet, we see he built a long, conical head which, I believe, was purposeful, to make room for the turle. A hook with a turned eye must be fastened with a snell or turle to hover & track properly. Tied directly to the eye, with anything other than a loop-knot, the turned eye will serve to lever the fly off balance, causing it to 'screw'. Modern tyers who tie directly to the eye would do a lot better to learn the turle knot, or tie with straight-eye hooks, as the Yorkshire purists prefer.
Sorry Bob. My bad. Reread the OP & now realize the above rant is a bit off-topic. I'm blaming onset dementia. Carry on.
I find this interesting especially your point of view regarding the long conical head being purposeful to make room for the turle knot. Like you've already mentioned a tiny head or almost non existent head depending on the skill of the tier is easy to achieve with this method of hackling. So my Q is why would you bother building a long conical head to create space for the turle when you can leave a bare shank at the eye similar to the space left by some catskill tiers?
A lot of what we do is preference based on personal aesthetics... Putting myself in Leisenring's shoes, using such hooks, I would do the same, so that the silk color shows through the turle, making the added mass look more like part of the bug.
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