First catgut

Moderators: William Anderson, letumgo

Mataura mayfly
Posts: 3648
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:28 am
Location: Southland, South Island, New Zealand.

Re: First catgut

Post by Mataura mayfly » Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:15 pm

hankaye wrote:Bear007, Howdy;

Don't be discouraged ... find some that isn't absorbable.

hank
If not absorbable, would it lend itself to the same kind of translucency when wet? To me this aspect is what gives this fly something different to say Mr Libertones Rubber Band Caddis. ;)
"Listen to the sound of the river and you will get a trout".... Irish proverb.
Bear007
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:18 pm
Location: Presque Isle, Maine

Re: First catgut

Post by Bear007 » Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:47 am

If not absorbable, would it lend itself to the same kind of translucency when wet? To me this aspect is what gives this fly something different to say Mr Libertones Rubber Band Caddis. ;)


I'm no doctor, but I think that was the reason they, the doctors, used catgut, for its absorbable qualities, I'm not sure if there is a non absorbable catgut. I don't think the amount of enzymes present in our trout waters are going to break it down to fast, maybe if its stuck in a fish's mouth for awhile. Hopefully if it does start breaking down it will have earned its keep and be ready for retirement ;) . Its all good.
Tim
DUBBN

Re: First catgut

Post by DUBBN » Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:26 am

Bear, stick with the catgut. I have been seeing alot of patterns using it on spme other groups I belong to, since you brought it to the forums attention.. I even found a flyfishing store (online and French I think) that sells it. Keep tying and let us know how sturdy it is.
User avatar
hankaye
Posts: 6237
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:59 pm
Location: Arrey, N.M. aka 32°52'37.63"N, 107°18'54.18"W

Re: First catgut

Post by hankaye » Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:01 am

Bear007, Howdy;

Thanks for bringing the gut out into the open on the forum ... It prompts me to 'Ask a Question"...

As the tyers and fishers of the past used gut for leaders and as a means for attaching the hook
to the leader I wonder if the gut they used was treated in any manner or if it is the treatment
that makes it a suture responsible for the dissolving. After all a cats gut doesn't dissolve while
in use in the original container... :?
Perhaps some of our more learned members could shed some light on this ???

hank
Striving for a less complicated life since 1949...
"Every day I beat my own previous record for number
of consecutive days I've stayed alive." George Carlin
User avatar
redietz
Posts: 1588
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:21 pm
Location: Central Maryland

Re: First catgut

Post by redietz » Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:19 am

hankaye wrote:Bear007, Howdy;

Thanks for bringing the gut out into the open on the forum ... It prompts me to 'Ask a Question"...

As the tyers and fishers of the past used gut for leaders and as a means for attaching the hook
to the leader I wonder if the gut they used was treated in any manner or if it is the treatment
that makes it a suture responsible for the dissolving. After all a cats gut doesn't dissolve while
in use in the original container... :?
Perhaps some of our more learned members could shed some light on this ???

hank
Hank -

The gut used for leader in the past was silk worm gut, which is actually not gut at all, but the silks glands on either side of the worm. It doesn't dissolve, but gets soft when wet.

"Cat" gut is actually from a sheep. It doesn't dissolve when used as a suture; it's broken down by the body's enzymes. It's exactly the same as the way a hook will "rust" out of a fish's mouth in a few days -- it would take a lot more than a few days for a hook to rust away to nothing just by being wet, but the fish's enzymes break it down. AFAIK, cat gut isn't going to dissolve in water no matter how long you fish it.
Bob
User avatar
crazy4oldcars
Posts: 595
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 5:26 pm
Location: SE Texas
Contact:

Re: First catgut

Post by crazy4oldcars » Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:36 pm

I'll bet gut would last longer than it would take me to lose the fly to a tree, snag or rock.
That's a nice "grubby" looking fly. I wonder if I can find cat gut locally? I'll have to do a little looking.

Kirk
fflutterffly
Posts: 1161
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:24 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: First catgut

Post by fflutterffly » Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:42 pm

I need clarification. When it says 'absorbable' does that mean it will eventually be 'gone'!
"Every day a Victory, Every year a Triumph" Dan Levin (My Father)
newriverspey
Posts: 211
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:37 am
Location: Blacksburg, Virginia

Re: First catgut

Post by newriverspey » Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:20 pm

Well that is good question. Absorbable suture in the world of surgery means that it will lose greater than 50% of its tensile strength within 60 days. That does not mean that the suture will be dissolved in that time. Plain gut is absorbed by macrophage enzymatic action. Then they added chromium salts to gut to prolong its tensile strength and that is called chromic gut. Plain gut and chromic gut will eventually degrade over time when removed from its package. But by that time you should have either lost your fly in a tree, on a fish or just lost forgot where you put the fly. Hope this helps.
User avatar
crazy4oldcars
Posts: 595
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 5:26 pm
Location: SE Texas
Contact:

Re: First catgut

Post by crazy4oldcars » Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:57 am

First, I ain't an expert.
My take on it is, if you left it soaking in water, it would tend to rot over time, but it would take a while.
Wet and dry cycles probably only make it tend to want to shrink up some. I'm basing this on reactions to leather when it gets wet.
I do wonder, tho, if it will stretch when it gets wet.

Kirk
UC Steve
Posts: 336
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:25 pm
Location: Boundary, Washington
Contact:

Re: First catgut

Post by UC Steve » Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:32 am

Wow. Incredibly realistic abdomen material. For proportion, I'd say you have the right size stuff, just too many segments on the nymph. Naturals have nine. That many & a bit more thorax, or half the thorax in front of the hackle, & it will pop.
Post Reply