John Swarbrick - John Turton Dressings

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joaniebo
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John Swarbrick - John Turton Dressings

Post by joaniebo » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:26 am

A couple more historical lists of dressings:
Attachments
A Partial List of John Turton's Flies.pdf
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A List of Warfedale Flies by John Swarbrick.pdf
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letumgo
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Re: John Swarbrick - John Turton Dressings

Post by letumgo » Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:49 am

Thank you, once again, for these valuable contributions to this site.
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letumgo
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Re: John Swarbrick - John Turton Dressings

Post by letumgo » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:24 pm

I’ve downloaded the attachments to my iPad, and pinned the post. Thanks again mate.
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Greenwell
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Re: John Swarbrick - John Turton Dressings

Post by Greenwell » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:24 pm

The date of the Swarbrick list should actually be 1817 rather than 1807. Rob Smith and I have established this from examination of the only known original manuscript, which is dated November 30, 1817. The MS was owned by Henry Walbran Cooper who evidently leant it to Ellis Beanfields for transcription to his List of Wharfedale Flies, 1907 and it has been dated thus ever since. Beanfields evidently either misread or miswrote the date of the MS as 1807. You can see a photograph of the original page of the Swarbrick MS on page 26 of Rob's book. This is the only known Swarbrick MS to come to light. Although it is rumoured that there are other original Swarbrick lists as well as later copies, none have turned up. Yet!
joaniebo
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Re: John Swarbrick - John Turton Dressings

Post by joaniebo » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:17 pm

Now I'm really confused! If I recall correctly, I downloaded / copied the info many years ago from (possibly) Don Nicolson's old web site.

I tried today to do a web search from the old links I had for Don Nicolson's site to no avail. But I did find a pic on Abe Books (https://www.anglebooks.com/list-of-whar ... lands.html ) that shows the cover dated 1807....thus my confusion.

Have been able to download both text and .pdf files of many of the old books but can't find a download for Swarbrick's book. Live and learn, eh? Thanks for the info.
Greenwell
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Re: John Swarbrick - John Turton Dressings

Post by Greenwell » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:41 am

The book that you see listed by Paul Morgan is a copy of the original List of Wharfedale Flies published by Ellis Beanlands in 1907. He (erroneously) gives the date of the Swarbrick list as 1807 and not 1817 as is actually correct and which appears in the original MS. Because of this error, the date of 1807 had been accepted and repeated until I turned up and eventually acquired the Swarbrick MS, and Rob Smith published the corrected date in his book. The Beanfields list is very rare itself and even the library of the Fly Fishers' club of London is without a copy.
Swarbrick did not publish a book, all we have from him is his MS which was previously owned by Henry Walbran Cooper, who provided it to Ellis Beanlands to copy for his 1907 List. I had the MS photographed and some of the pages are reproduced in Rob's book. You can't find a copy of Swarbrick's "book" because there never was one!
joaniebo
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Re: John Swarbrick - John Turton Dressings

Post by joaniebo » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:06 am

Very interesting info. Thanks.
daringduffer
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Re: John Swarbrick - John Turton Dressings

Post by daringduffer » Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:12 pm

It's good to be reminded; 'facts' are not always facts. Sometimes fraud and sometimes ignorance.

dd
RobSmith1964
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Re: John Swarbrick - John Turton Dressings

Post by RobSmith1964 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:35 pm

Not sure if Mr Nicholson is still around, but there are quite a few mistakes in his interpretation of Swarbrick’s language. Heron Sheugh for instance is not a Yorkshire term for a Heron.
The problem with any interpretation of Swarbrick’s 1817 manuscript is that it often stands in isolation and is never compared to other fly list and manuscripts of the time. If the Swarbrick dressings are compared to Pickard’s dressings of the same period. It become obvious that Swarbrick’s dressings are copied from Pickard, and that Swarbrick makes numerous mistakes when recounting and listing Pickard’s dressings.
Also, as I point out in my book, the Beanlands’ publication that everyone quotes, is in fact missing two fly patterns which are found at the end of Swarbrick’s manuscript. There are also large numbers of paragraphs which are found in the original manuscript that are absent from the Beanlands publication. No doubt due to late Victorian morals about poisoning and poaching fish, as the Swarbrick manuscript originally included a few paragraphs on these methods!
John Swarbrick was a tenant farmer on the Middleton Estate near Ilkley. His manuscript was written for the benefit of either a small grace and favour syndicate of anglers fishing the estate waters on the river Wharfe, or possibly a small band of gentlemen visiting the estate. Interestingly, various members of the Pickard family were also gamekeepers on the Middleton Estate. So this gives us a connection between the origins of both the Swarbrick and Pickard manuscripts.
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