Partridge and orange comparison

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DUBBN
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Re: Partridge and orange comparison

Post by DUBBN » Thu Jul 14, 2022 9:26 am

Roadkill wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 2:38 pm In one high mountain lake I fish in a float tube the planted trout had a preference for a P&O tied with Depth Ray Fluorescent Orange nylon floss over the silk bodied fly. ;)
Ha. I copied your example. I tied the P&O with Veevus 14/0 Florescent Orange for a float on the Gunnison in a few hours.
Terrestrial12
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Re: Partridge and orange comparison

Post by Terrestrial12 » Thu Jul 14, 2022 12:00 pm

Peacock, phesant, muskrat, Partridge + hares mask absolutely have the magic. I believe you're right about silk being magic too. But I don't think it's color. Im not one like LaBranch that thinks color has no value at all...I believe it most definitely does matter. But I don't think it's every color and I don't think it's of upmost importance. I think the things that give those materials magic properties is translucency, iridescence, tiny subtle mottling, and motion. They most all poses all of these qualities and when combined all those tiny little mottled fibers moving about and having a translucent look it's very VERY life like. DUBBN I think you are right about silk having sheen, and that being negated with wax bit maybe what it loses in sheen it makes up in that translucent, almost squishy looking depth of color that only heavily waxed silk has? I don't pretend to be an expert, or even very knowledgeable...these are just observations and conclusions I've came to with the help of books from tyers who thought about material in a much deeper way than most do now days. But at the end of the day we are just splitting hairs and over thinking questions that can never be answered definitively. Again...I want to stress I'm not arguing or saying anybody is wrong or that I am right. Just giving my unsolicited perspective haha
Brooktrout52
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Re: Partridge and orange comparison

Post by Brooktrout52 » Tue Jul 19, 2022 9:01 pm

Interesting thread. After reading this conversation I happened to read Hidy's ISOFF Open Letter. On page 6 he states "To the best of my knowledge, the essential qualities that excite trout in an artificial fly that gives the illusion of an insect alive in the water are: Color, Undercolor, Natural color harmony, Translucence, Texture, Size, Shape, Proportions, Delicacy and Vitality. To these qualities I would add Mimicry."

No mention if these are in any priority order. Just throwing this out there as food for thought.
DUBBN
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Re: Partridge and orange comparison

Post by DUBBN » Tue Jul 19, 2022 9:32 pm

Brooktrout52 wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 9:01 pm Interesting thread. After reading this conversation I happened to read Hidy's ISOFF Open Letter. On page 6 he states "To the best of my knowledge, the essential qualities that excite trout in an artificial fly that gives the illusion of an insect alive in the water are: Color, Undercolor, Natural color harmony, Translucence, Texture, Size, Shape, Proportions, Delicacy and Vitality. To these qualities I would add Mimicry."

No mention if these are in any priority order. Just throwing this out there as food for thought.

Without being in a trouts mind and brain, I wonder how he would GUESS that.

I have never given alot of credit to people that believe they know the answer to size, color, profile, and presentation.

Authors seem to know though.
Mike62
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Re: Partridge and orange comparison

Post by Mike62 » Wed Jul 20, 2022 7:54 am

The older I get, the more boring my tying becomes. Where once I tied trippy, Timothy Leary flies, I now fall into a more Bob Wyatt-y camp: size, shape, and posture, mean more to me than color. I'm not negating colors impact as a component, we know trout see in color, I'm just going on what seems to work for me. Chouinard fishes nothing but PT's all over the world, and changes nothing but size; he fishes PT's for Bonefish. I fish with a buddy who swears color matters, and he matches my catch rate, so there's that.

Maybe it's the translucence in modern materials, maybe it's the trout's ability to see into the ultraviolet spectrum that hits a trigger for them..., smarter people than me will have to settle this.
DOUGSDEN
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Re: Partridge and orange comparison

Post by DOUGSDEN » Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:30 pm

DarrellP,
Back on the first page, you commented about the color red on Bluegills and Shell Crackers! I wholeheartedly agree! And yes, using florescent threads of all colors but particularly red is a huge plus in picking off reluctant fish!
Dougsden
Fish when you can, not when you should! Anything short of this is just a disaster.
Terrestrial12
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Re: Partridge and orange comparison

Post by Terrestrial12 » Thu Sep 01, 2022 6:29 am

Mike62 hahaha you had me laughing with "Timothy Leary flies"!! You mean....like this? I wanted to come up with a trippy name for it so I called them the "Tennessee Jed" after one of my favorite Dead songs. Maybe I should have called it the Owsley Stanley :)
As for the bluegill and shell crackers and such I fish for a LOT of panfish and rock bass, goggle eye, stuff like that. I hunt for giant 12" bluegill and find that purple is a really good trigger point color also. I've not had a lot of luck with regular red but flo-red is really good too.
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Variant
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Re: Partridge and orange comparison

Post by Variant » Thu Sep 01, 2022 5:52 pm

Mike62 wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 7:54 am The older I get, the more boring my tying becomes. Where once I tied trippy, Timothy Leary flies, I now fall into a more Bob Wyatt-y camp: size, shape, and posture, mean more to me than color. I'm not negating colors impact as a component, we know trout see in color, I'm just going on what seems to work for me. Chouinard fishes nothing but PT's all over the world, and changes nothing but size; he fishes PT's for Bonefish. I fish with a buddy who swears color matters, and he matches my catch rate, so there's that.

Maybe it's the translucence in modern materials, maybe it's the trout's ability to see into the ultraviolet spectrum that hits a trigger for them..., smarter people than me will have to settle this.
Hey Mike,
Remember this TIMOTHY LEARY QUOTE ?” TURN ON, TUNE IN, DROP OUT. ...”

Lou 😀
In sport,method is everything.The more the skill the method calls for,the higher it’s yield of emotional stir and satisfaction,the higher it’s place must be in a sportsman’s scale of values. RODERICK HAIG-BROWN
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DarrellP
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Re: Partridge and orange comparison

Post by DarrellP » Mon Sep 05, 2022 12:57 pm

With all due respect, it seems to me that having a fly resemble something alive, in the general shape and color of what the fish eats, in the right location, behaving like how fish are used to food behaving, are all somewhat important factors in fly design and selection for Trout. To me, the whole imitation vs presentation argument is like arguing about how many angels fit on the head of a pin.

Now Largemouth Bass and Salmon refute this logic.
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jcwillow777
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Re: Partridge and orange comparison

Post by jcwillow777 » Mon Sep 05, 2022 7:17 pm

Orange partridge has been my go to fly since I started fishing spiders. It is the lead fly on my team of 3.

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Greg
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