Hackle ALERT !!!

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ForumGhillie
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Re: Hackle ALERT !!!

Post by ForumGhillie » Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:35 am

Dana,

So what do you call this? :D
Furnace-hackle.jpg
Furnace-hackle.jpg (138.69 KiB) Viewed 251 times
Greenwell
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Re: Hackle ALERT !!!

Post by Greenwell » Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:38 am

Golden something?
Eflytyer
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Re: Hackle ALERT !!!

Post by Eflytyer » Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:45 pm

I’ve been selling materials for around 25 years. Getting natural materials is always a problem. One thing is prices change and availability changes. I will say this about things prices have gone up considerably and and many things are impossible to locate. Umpqua raises around 10,000 partridges through Metz and also those are presold to Umpqua. I put in an order last fall that never filled. This year the wholesale price of partridge is now what last years retail price is.... they are about double.

Game birds were used because in the old days because that’s what they had. They bought local and used local. A lot of our game birds in the USA were never used because they didn’t have them. Instead of fussing about whether this one or that one is available, use other stuff. Whiting Fams has some great stuff and it’s available in in a lot of colors, it ain’t threatened or endgagered and it has a great prices. So what if it isn’t xyz somgbird? For intance the Brahma Hen , hen cape dyed March brown looks like woodcock. While the Coq de Leon Brown speckled hen looks like snipe . The fish aren’t going to care. Now if some genetic engineer can figure out how to create a cape of nothing but size 18 Partridge , I could retire and fund my 401k for the next 10 years.

This is a lot like the saddle craze a few years ago and salmon materials. People complained about the saddle prices but what they really wanted was to buy a saddle for $20 so they could resell it on eBay for $100. I think own source of mine gets like 25 plover and 25 snipe for a season. There aren’t any. Just like Jungle cock. Everybody wants a cape for $25. Not happening.

Still another great resource are Indian hen capes. Crazy cheap and those have lots of nice feathers. A few years ago I got some ruffed grouse heads, wings and and saddles and dyed those. These have very cool colors and I sold them for $4.50 3 for $10. I also have really cool female Indian bamboo partridge, those I’ve sold as an owl substitute. For plover I have dyed bleached Starling , the pellets don’t do well so I have those in packets. I did this to give you some alternatives and while I sold some it wasn’t all that popular. I also took partridge wings and did the same, again not that popular. Anybody seeing a pattern here? Try something else!

I also have mottled hen backs, those are very good but that one is quite popular and mine are often sold out many times. I also have gotten some really good genetic hen capes. I’ve had rusty duns. Cree, honey Dun and my favorite is chocolate dun which is an ideal sub for waterhen.

I suggested that one and got bashed. It is really good and affordable. I asked the person to sell everything in their collection and I’m still waiting. I can’t sell what I don’t have.

As far as the silk goes. It’s gone, Pearsalls went out of business in 2013. I have 54 Dean Street silk and again someone bashed me about that. I also asked the complainer to send his extras, still waiting for that too. The reality is some of the Japanese stuff sucks in that you have to respool it. From a Retailer stand point, I can’t sell it as there is no margin in it and if I am not making any $, no need to sell it. I am not a charity.
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PhilA
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Re: Hackle ALERT !!!

Post by PhilA » Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:27 pm

ForumGhillie wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:35 am
Dana,
So what do you call this? :D
John,
Subject to unknowns about white balance, monitor differences, yada yada yada, I would suggest the color "kneecap". It's the inverse (red-black-red) of coch-y-bonddu (black-red-black).

Image

Phil
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Re: Hackle ALERT !!!

Post by ForumGhillie » Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:31 pm

PhilA wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:27 pm
ForumGhillie wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:35 am
Dana,
So what do you call this? :D
John,
Subject to unknowns about white balance, monitor differences, yada yada yada, I would suggest the color "kneecap". It's the inverse (red-black-red) of coch-y-bonddu (black-red-black).

Image

Phil
Phil, that is it... so that is "knee-cap"????

Your colors are spot on. My photo was taken with my iPhone and I didn't want to fuss with adjusting the colors. I am busy tying caddisflies as I continue do more research.

Thanks!
Bazzer69
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Re: Hackle ALERT !!!

Post by Bazzer69 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:01 pm

Eflytyer,
Hi, I’ve only been on the forum for a couple of years so I don’t know you, but what brought you post on? If you were bashed on pricing that’s just not fair, prices have all increased by a crazy amount over the years I’ve been fly tying. A lot of fly tyers don’t seem to understand how long a cape or saddle lasts. If you were to price a Whiting saddle out by feather cost you would see how low cost they are even at current prices. We’ve got Steve Tyler to thank for that. My gripe is how difficult it is to obtain materials as used by our forefathers. I understand that some of the species are in low numbers, but why is it illegal to own a moulted feather, I’ve found several Bald Eagle Feathers but I’ve had to leave them on the ground since the penalties are so severe. Yet locally a rancher has been busted for shooting nearly two hundred raptors and he has just got a light sentence!

All the best, we don’t need to lose another retailer
Barry
Love both fly fishing and fly tying, been doing it for a while
But not much good at either
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PhilA
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Re: Hackle ALERT !!!

Post by PhilA » Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:25 pm

ForumGhillie wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:31 pm
Phil, that is it... so that is "knee-cap"????

Your colors are spot on. My photo was taken with my iPhone and I didn't want to fuss with adjusting the colors. I am busy tying caddisflies as I continue do more research.

Thanks!
John,
According to Dave Roberts ... yes.

According to George Kelson (The Salmon Fly, 1895) ... yes.
"Knee-cap hackles (a cross between Malay and Polish fowls). A red Cock's hackle with a slightly irregular black streak tapering, and running through the centre of red fibers on each side of the quill. The colours are much the same as in "coch-a-bonddu", only that they are placed differently, as shown in the picture. They are very scarce."
Image

According to C.F. Walker (Fly-Tying As an Art, 1957) ... yes.
"Kneecap: A very rare hackle resembling a Coch-a-bonddu in reverse, i.e. with red centre and edges, divided by a black strip."

According to Frank Elder (The Book of the Hackle, 1979) ... yes.
"This is said to be a very rare hackle with red list and edges and black between. I have never seen one and I know of no tie which specifies this hackle."

In my experience, kneecap are less common than furnace but not "very scarce" among American fowl. I own two or three and have passed up several opportunities to buy others.

Phil
Last edited by PhilA on Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PhilA
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Re: Hackle ALERT !!!

Post by PhilA » Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:45 pm

Eflytyer wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:45 pm
I’ve been selling materials for around 25 years. Getting natural materials is always a problem ... (shortened by deletion)
Mike (Eflytyer),
Thanks for your post. Dave Roberts (Feather Emporium) is a friend of mine, and he complains frequently about the availability of materials. Acquiring quality materials is as difficult for him as it is for us, the end users. Such frustrations are a minor nuisance for us, but they affect your and Dave's livelihood. Best wishes going forward in a changing world. At least Amazon has little interest in fly tying materials (yet!).

As a recidivist feather accumulator, I watch online prices and availability fairly regularly. Your prices are among, if not THE, very best. My previous purchases from you have always been accurately described and promptly shipped. Your web site may lack some the bells and whistles of others, but it does not lack for fly tying knowledge and merchant helpfulness. Thank you for your honest and straightforward services to the fly tying community.

Phil
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Re: Hackle ALERT !!!

Post by ForumGhillie » Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:53 pm

PhilA,

Thank you for your insights into the difference in red / black hackle.

So my hen cape I posted is mainly furnace with a few knee-cap and several monkey feathers. My other furnace hen capes are just plain old furnace feathers.

I do not think of you as a "recidivist feather accumulator", just a major book, silk thread & hackle collector with a serious hoarding disease who thinks everything is "Mine!"



John
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Re: Hackle ALERT !!!

Post by ForumGhillie » Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:56 pm

Eflytyer,

I have done work for a couple of fly shop / hackle sellers. Too me, what you and others do must be a labor of love because I see no way to make serious gross margin for most hackle you guys sell.

You will never hear me bitch or complain.

Best wishes!
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