FLYMPH FORUM

Very interesting. The plot thickens (as it always does when one digs down into something).

Thanks for the reference to the earlier Tups thread, Ray -- I had somehow missed that! It was quite illuminating, and so many interesting flies. I also found your post on Sparse Grey Matter, which was wonderfully done.

T2F: Thanks for the info! Great stuff. I think I'll work with the Leisenring version (as it holds to the boundaries of the swap).

That leaves us with two images both attributed to the hand of Leisenring:

This one (also shown above) is attributed to Leisenring by Gordan Wickstram in Art of Angling Journal Vol. 1, Issue 3



In further searching, I found the following picture here in the flymphforum from Lance, of a Tups tied by Leisenring, now in the collection of Bud and Judy Hofer (http://www.flymphforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3760)



Rather different flies, both attributed to Leisenring's hand! One with tails, one without. One pretty clearly floss, the other perhaps buttonhole twist. One with a rib, one without. And while it's possible to imagine that there is some color change in the scanning process, there is no denying the thoraxes are radically different colors (and neither corresponding to the written recipe). (I was also glad to see that they are both tied on down-eye hooks, as I don't own and can't access locally up-eye hooks!).

I'm no literalist-fundamentalist, so I'm intrigued rather than troubled by the differences - but it does make it challenging to try to tie an 'authentic' Leisenring Tups!

Chris ~ Your last photo is the one to which I was making reference. For what it's worth, Leisenring supposedly did not much care for down-eye hooks; that was something Pete Hidy liked. Oh, and the abdomen on that Hofer fly might possibly be natural raffia grass.

Chris,

I pulled out my copy of "The Art of Tying the Wet Fly" (4th Printing Edition), and see found two separate listings for the Tup's Nymph. One listing includes a tail (honey dun hackle tips) and one excludes the tail. The book lists the following two recipes:





TUP'S NYMPH (Page 58)
Hook: Size 13, 14
Silk: Primrose Yellow
Hackle: Very small light-blue hen or medium-dark honey dun hen hackle
Body: Halved - Rear half of primrose yellow buttonhole twist; thorax or shoulder of yellow and claret seal fur mixed dubbing spun on primrose silk.
Tail: Two honey dun hackle points

TUP'S NYMPH (Page 70)
Hook: Size 13, 14
Silk: Primrose Yellow
Hackle: Very small light-blue hen or medium-dark honey dun hen hackle
Body: Halved - Rear half of primrose yellow buttonhole twist; thorax or shoulder of yellow and claret seal fur mixed dubbing spun on primrose silk.
(no mention of a tail)

Here is the photo showing Leisenring's favorite flies. The Tup's Nymph is shown on the right side, second fly from the bottom.


I looked closely at the photo in the book, and honestly cannot tell if there is a tail on the fly or not.

tie2fish wrote:Chris ~ Your last photo is the one to which I was making reference. For what it's worth, Leisenring supposedly did not much care for down-eye hooks; that was something Pete Hidy liked. Oh, and the abdomen on that Hofer fly might possibly be natural raffia grass.

Bill, I'm sure you got this mixed up when writing ( or I when reading). Leisenring strongly advocated down eyed hooks - that is surely your point?

dd

An example of primrose yellow.

http://hibiscus-sinensis.com/regency/colors.htm

daringduffer wrote:

tie2fish wrote:Chris ~ Your last photo is the one to which I was making reference. For what it's worth, Leisenring supposedly did not much care for down-eye hooks; that was something Pete Hidy liked. Oh, and the abdomen on that Hofer fly might possibly be natural raffia grass.

Bill, I'm sure you got this mixed up when writing ( or I when reading). Leisenring strongly advocated down eyed hooks - that is surely your point?

dd

You are absolutely correct, Stefan. I did intend to say that JL did not like up-eyed hooks, so cassady needn't be concerned that he does not have any. Thank you for catching my misspeak.

Chris, I see I'm late to the dance and you've been given a lot to consider, especially all the alternatives and discussions within the Tups swap. I'll make two quick observations and then give this some thought. Gotta love a guy who will spout off and then do the thinking part.

The recipe calls for hackle points, which I never picked up on, but I was tying with Dave Hughes this weekend in Philly and this was the first time I had seen anyone tie in actual hen hackle tips, like the points we might use for wings on a Catskill dry. They seemed big, and having never seen them before on this pattern, very much out of place, but there they are. And in the illustration, they are there. I guess we see what we want to see sometimes. I prefer a few hackle fibers, or none, but the points are there. Not that it matters, the fly Lance posted of the actual JL version shows the fibers. If you look in Hughes latest edition of the Wet Flies, you can see what I mean by his hackle points.

Second, the buttonhole twist silk is really just 2-3 times thicker than the Pearsall's Gossamer. For a very good match, just take the Pearsall's primrose #3 silk and double or triple it, twist it into a cord and use that in place of the buttonhole. The difference will be minor visually, the result will be exact in terms of translucency and thickness. Just something to play with.

Now for the thinking. That should be harder. Maybe tomorrow.

w

William Anderson wrote:
Now for the thinking. That should be harder. Maybe tomorrow.

w

I'm a procrastinator too, but I mostly think a lot and do little.

dd

William Anderson wrote:
The recipe calls for hackle points, which I never picked up on, but I was tying with Dave Hughes this weekend in Philly and this was the first time I had seen anyone tie in actual hen hackle tips, like the points we might use for wings on a Catskill dry. They seemed big, and having never seen them before on this pattern, very much out of place, but there they are. And in the illustration, they are there. I guess we see what we want to see sometimes. I prefer a few hackle fibers, or none, but the points are there. Not that it matters, the fly Lance posted of the actual JL version shows the fibers. If you look in Hughes latest edition of the Wet Flies, you can see what I mean by his hackle points.

I find this idea really interesting -- and may try it for one or two, but the limiting factor is I haven't got 50 hackle points that small!

Hmm. For the tail, I used the very bottom, marabou-like fibers from the bottom of a honey spade feather, thinking they might be somewhat like the hackle tips... not sure if I like them. Shorter, maybe? Clearly I have to trim the seal down more. And I had this rather odd grey and dark honey mottled cape that I thought would work. It might still work, but shorter hackle.

And, of course, ensure that the lens is perfectly parallel with the hook when I shoot the picture.

Work in progress, as they say.