FLYMPH FORUM

Soft-hackle wrote: Leisenring developed his tying techniques because he as concerned with proper construction, durability, representation of insects, and he wanted his creations to "come alive" when used. He was fastidious and meticulous-after all he was a toolmaker. He constantly dealt with exactness and precision. It is reflected in his fly tying.

Mark, Carl - out of interest, do you know how many turns of thread are layed over the hackle stem using this technique, in total?

Andrew.

Andrew,
If you are speaking of the # of turns to tie the hackle on-Leisenring says 6-7 turns of thread, then clip excess butt of the hackle off.

Mark

Carl,
I do not see anywhere in Leisenring's description of tying where he bends the hackle up with his thumb. He does lift the hackle up perpendicular to the hook shank with the hackle pliers to get it into proper wrapping position. When I first read your description, I did not recall this being part of the procedure, so I re-read it. I don't find where is says to do this with the thumb. If you can point this out, I'm interested to know where it is. Thanks

Mark

You know after thinking about it more, I remembered him bringing it up at a 90 (perpendicular) before wrapping, I thought he was using his thumb but maybe that was Hidy in one of his descriptions...I will have to go check, either way the step of positioning the hackle perpendicular before wrapping is described and the process has the same purpose.

I've tied a few the original way now and can report som success. I am certain that the durability is much better. Unfortunately this is not a problem for me.

I tied some with hen; easy as it is strong. Then a couple with woodcock which was easy too, but the stalk less strong. Lastly I tied a couple with crow neck feather which is very soft and not very strong in the stalk. I managed those too. It's getting better every day...

dd

Very nice illustrations.

My only question, is why not just use the silk as the tying thread?

I just read this thread and found Mark's illustration very complete and did learn about tying in the thread for a plain abdomen, I must have over looked that step somewhere along the line. I use both methods of tying in the hackle sometimes first if I want a small thorax as in in Clyde style fly or then in last as if I was not worried about the thickness of the thorax. Either way I wrap through the hackle to re-enforce the stem.

Hi Bob,
That's a good question. The reason, I suspect, is the waxed tying thread would not get wet enough to make it translucent. With no tying thread on the hook shank, the silk would take-on the water, thus looking more translucent. Also, if you use the buttonhole twist Leisenring suggests, it builds the abdomen up very quickly. I do not use Buttonhole twist for the reasons I stated earlier, although it could be used. I use regular silk thread (not tying thread).

A secondary reason might be in this instance the tying thread and abdomen thread are the same color, so if you wanted to use a different color tying thread, you have the option, however I suspect the real reason was the waxed tying thread.

Mark

Hi All;

I used Gutterman sewing silk thread for abdomen, gives great segmentation effect but would be difficult to use as tying thread without getting a large buildup at head. It's much thicker diameter than Pearsalls.

Wayne

Soft-hackle wrote:
A secondary reason might be in this instance the tying thread and abdomen thread are the same color, so if you wanted to use a different color tying thread, you have the option ...

That was my hypothesis. Either that, or he was trying to avoid a large head and his tying thread was finer than the silk. (I've never personally bought into the idea that a fly shouldn't have a visible head -- real ones do.)

People have been tying with silk for translucence for a long time; just don't over wax the thread -- or just wax the first three or so inches, enough to get it started and to tie in the feather.