THREADS ? ? ?

[Mike Connor]

I did read the original question, but I don't think I could add anything sensible to what has already been written. When I first started, silk thread was all that was available to me, and it is still what I mostly use. Usually Pearsall's, but I have used others. I also now use some other threads for various flies, especially for salt water flies and some other stuff, notably Danville's 3/0 monocord, and I also use Danvilles Flymaster 6/0 thread;

http://www.wflies.com/6-0_dtl.html

for quite a few things, but I have never placed as much importance on the use of various threads for my usual run of flies as many seem to do. I more or less only use black and pale yellow, but I do have some other colours, and I have a wide range of silk colours both in thread and floss.

Whatever thread you use, the most important aspect of the business is controlling it, and being able to use it properly for whatever you wish to achieve,( Split thread "dubbing", etc). As I am able to dress flies as well as I wish with the thread I use, I see no really good reason to try many others. I have read a great deal about various threads, and I have tried quite a few for various things, but never seen any reason to change from what I use. If there were large advantages, then I doubtless would have done so, but I never perceived any. Using very thin strong thread is now popular, and it may be easier to avoid "build-up" or be more precise with some things as a result, although the tendency is to use a lot more wraps for various things, which rather defeats the presumable object of the exercise, and there are also other possible disadvantages. Very fine strong thread will actually cut various hair and feather materials. I never had any trouble using the threads I use though, and so I never bothered much trying whole lots of different ones, or changing to those I did try. Also, I don't want whole ranges of different threads on my bench, it strikes me as being more of a nuisance than an advantage. For similar reasons I also use a very limited range of hooks. I have never seen any advantage at all in using loads of different types and shapes. I long ago chose a couple of types which I liked, and I stick to them.

TL
MC

[hankaye]

Mike Connor, Howdy;

Far be it from me to presume or infer that you hadn't read the whole thread.
The experience that you bring to the forum is appreciated not only by myself but by many more then a few others.
It is the experience that I reach out for.
I am starting my quest for knowledge later in my life than I should have. Had I followed up when the fly bug first bit (when I was 8 years old), I would have almost 54 years experience to draw upon and to have forgotten. But, that is why we call it Life.

I was merely stating that the thread had drifted from my question. Nothing wrong with that what so ever.
I’m guilty of bringing more than a few off course myselfe. There is a lot of interesting information of the technical nature that has been brought forward as a result. Bonus.
Although it is informational and informative, I was and am more interested in the thoughts and opinions of the membership as to the ‘Whys” of what they choose to tye with what they do.
Everyone’s opinion counts and are valued.

Gee …. Getting’ kinda wordy ain’t I …..

Thanks everyone for your time to answer my questions.

hank

[Mike Connor]

No problem, I didn't infer anything at all about your response, I was just clarifying why I am probably not really all that much help on the subject of various threads. I gave the actual information on thread that I had easily available, that was basically my only intention. I have become used to, and very comfortable with, what I mostly use, which is why I mostly use it, and that is really a matter of habit and experience as much as anything. I have never had any problems, and I see no good reason to go looking for solutions to problems I don't have. Having said that, each thread has its own characteristics, and one needs to learn what these are, and how to use and control them. Control of the threads I use has become automatic for me, I no longer have to think about it at all. This is also another reason in my opinion not to have lots of different ones. The more you have, the more difficult it is to learn how to use them properly. As I already wrote, regardless of what thread you use, how you use it and control it is actually of far greater importance than the thread itself.

I have always been interested in the technical side of things, especially with regard to materials, and I try to keep abreast of many things, but that is not to say I use them all. I basically only adapt those things for my own use which I think might be improvements, if they are, then I will adapt them, but I don't try everything that appears on the market, and even those things I do try are not necessarily adapted.

For people who are basically "starting out" fly-fishing and fly-dressing nowadays, regardless of age, there is an absolutely terrifyingly massive array of stuff to choose from, and there are many advocates for stuff that is, in their respective opinions, a "must have". Although I am extremely receptive to new ideas and materials, I also tend to view many things with caution, and take them with a large pinch of salt. Generally I work on the "KISS" principle, ( Keep It Simple Stupid). Having huge arrays of anything at all tends to get very complicated very quickly, and this applies especially to things like thread, hooks, and very many modern materials, even tools! Although I have collected and tried a huge amount of stuff over the years, as far as the practical side of fly-dressing is concerned I have basically more or less come full circle, and tended more and more to the use of what many might now refer to as "simple traditional" stuff, simply because it works extremely well for me.

As to the "why" of what I use, as above, I mainly use it because it suits me, and works well for me. It might well not suit somebody else as well. There are many people who do not like using 6/0 silk, or indeed any 6/0 thread for dressing small trout flies. Apparently they do not achieve satisfactory results with it, or are unable or unwilling to learn how to use it to achieve the results they want. As I wrote, I never had any problems with it, and having now used it for half a century I am not likely to come across any either!

With regard to experience itself, and notwithstanding that I am well aware of what you mean to say, the one really major thing that it is impossible to pass on to anybody is experience. Of course I can attempt to detail my experience, and explain why and how I do things, but that is not actually experience at all. The only way to actually gain experience is to do things yourself. Of course it can help a great deal to read or hear about somebody else's experience, and even more if you can watch and learn from somebody with such experience, any and all useful information is also of great worth, but you can only actually gain the necessary experience yourself.

Unfortunately, a certain amount of experience is also absolutely essential in order to be able to evaluate a lot of things. This is the main reason I will never give "absolute" advice or endorsements of virtually anything at all. There are plenty of ways to skin a cat, and as long as you end up with a result which suits you, then it doesn't actually matter a great deal how you go about it.

Many "simple" statements are of course nothing of the sort. If somebody says "That's the best thread for that". it may or may not be true, and even if true then only for him. When people ask me things then I do feel obliged to give as comprehensive an explanation as I am capable of, hopefully so that they understand why I do something or other, and not just the fact that I do, this unfortunately often results in long involved discourses with lots of qualifiers and "ifs and buts". That is also the nature of the material under discussion.

The "simple" answer on what thread to use, is to use that which suits you and achieves the results you want. But of course, you can only actually know this if you get good enough with some thread or other to be able to discern that.

TL
MC

[Mike Connor]

You may find these of interest;

http://globalflyfisher.com/tiebetter/thread_control/#sp

http://oregonflyfishingblog.com/2011/04 ... ed-part-i/

http://oregonflyfishingblog.com/2011/04 ... d-part-ii/

The technical stuff on thread properties etc is doubtless of interest, but the actual nub of the matter is how you use and control your thread, if you can do that, and produce the results you want, it doesn't make much difference what you use. (Apart from silk with it's special properties on certain flies).

TL
MC

[hankaye]

Mike Connor, Howdy;

Thanks again for your time spent in a well worded reply.
I do realize that actual usage and experience are the best teacher. I was attempting to flatten the learning curve a wee bit.
The last 3 links that you sent are likely the best on the subject (my opinion). Not overly technical rather more experienced
based and more of an opinion and expressed as such.
Reckon it’s time to wrap some more thread …

Thanks again,

hank

[Mike Connor]

My pleasure.

One piece of advice which was fairly common to "beginning" dressers at one time, but I have not seen for a while, and which will help you a lot if you can manage it, is; Don't sit down to just dress one or two flies. Prepare and lay out your materials and try to dress at least half a dozen. When you first start doing this the "quality" of the results will vary, usually with the later of the flies dressed in that session being more like what you want to achieve. After a while, your flies will become consistently better, you will gain a lot more routine, and also become a lot faster. This also teaches things like material and thread control by "repetition", and this is still the best way to learn a lot of things.

TL
MC

[hankaye]

Mike Connor, Howdy;

Thanks for that, it's what I did this afternoon.
I've been gifted (by Letumgo), with A. K. Best's book; "Advanced Fly Tying"
On page 14 He start's a list of "How to Save Time" items and # 3 on the list is to lay out the materials, prep what needs it, so-on and so-forth...
I enjoy hearing the same things from different sources ... helps reinforce the lesson.

My skills are still somewhat lacking, and I don't tye as often as I should (shame on me).

Thanks for taking the time to nudge me along in the right direction.

hank

[William Anderson]

I'll chime in to agree with MC on laying out the materials and setting the goal on at least half a dozen to start, a dozen is better. Tonight I'm tying for the first time in several weeks (for the swap) and I do fiddle with the design details, techniques, proportions and materials to get what I think I'm going for. That's 5-6 flies to get through that. Then when I'm satisfied that I have the right composition, I lay out all the materials to tie up the number of flies that I need. In this case I needed to send in 13, which means I'll tie 20+ to make sure the 13 that go out are most consistent of the bunch. The rest go in the box. Sure enough, my first 6 were warm ups and the following 15 were up to speed. I'm not dim whitted...it just takes me a while. . Anyway. Make the decisions firm, then select the right sized hackles and prep them and line em up. It might have been Mike that mentioned this years ago, among others and it stuck. For me, working to make each fly consistent to each other is very important in learning control over the materials. And count your wraps. Did I mention that? .

w

[Otter]

I have been using UTC for years, mainly because its what the local shop sells and I have got used to using it. It is hard to control at times. Since I started using pearsalls I have to admit that I have come to enjoy tying with it and have found that I can tie with a lot more precision with it. The one thing abouts using pearsalls is that it forces you to reduce un-necessary wraps.

[hankaye]

Dub-ya & Otter Howdy;

Thanks to you both for the information shared.

Dub-ya, I think that you had mentioned the laying out of materials before as part of your 'routine'.
I think that at the time I chalked it up to your being an architect. I know better now.

Otter, if one is thrifty (and more are learning to be so in this economy), one buys local to avoid shipping & handling charges. In a case similar to mine where there is NO local shop one “pays the freight” . So I figured I’d see what folks prefer to tye with and see if I could cut down on the choices. Reckon not.

Thank you both for the time you each took to respond.

hank