spider hackle lengths

[Kelly L.]

Thanks. I like the brown ones, but sometime I like the gray ones too. I especially like the gray one on the Partridge and Yellow. Tonight I made 3 Partridge and Green flies. That was the first time I ever made that particular one. I will have to look up what is traditional for that. But I will still probably have them in both colors, depending on which works better on the fish around here. I am also using different hooks. I still don't know which hook I prefer. I am really wanting to try that Gaelic Supreme hook, but they are pricey. (Dave Brandt) I have a box of old Gaelic Supreme hooks, and they will work good too. I want to wait until I get better at tying the spiders, before I use those hooks. I still haven't even decided if I like tying in with the tip, or tying in the hackle first, like Hans does. Davie McPhail does spiders by the tip. (at least on one video I watched)

[DUBBN]

redietz I have a whole skin...and it is fairly nice too

That's about the length I prefer. You'll get hundreds of flies out the skin.

Carl may believe that longer hackle doesn't work as well with swung flies, but I took 25 wild browns this afternoon that would differ with opinion. Again, though, it's the whole confidence thing.

(One small critique about the P&O, if you're trying to tie a traditional one -- the one you show will certainly catch fish, and feel free to ignore if you're not going with tradition -- That's the wrong hackle. You're looking for a brown one out of the middle of the back. Save the gray ones for partridge and yellows or partridge and greens.)

Totally disagree with that. For me, the Gray ones work best with the P&O, and the Brown work best with the Peacock. Of course I am not the brightest bulb on the tree, but I would never tell someone they were wrong when the fish has the final say.

[Kelly L.]

Dubbn...what do you mean peacock? Most times I go traditional, but sometimes I don't. I have a list of the traditional colors around here somewhere. I need to go look it up.

[redietz]

with the P&O, and the Brown work best with the Peacock. Of course I am not the brightest bulb on the tree, but I would never tell someone they were wrong when the fish has the final say.

No question that the fly shown will catch fish, and I said as much. It's just not a traditional P&O.

[Kelly L.]

Okay, I don't see what is the traditional hackle for the Partridge and Green. I am guessing it is the brown partridge feather? That is what I have been using anyway.

[DUBBN]

Okay, I don't see what is the traditional hackle for the Partridge and Green. I am guessing it is the brown partridge feather? That is what I have been using anyway.

I have been fishing the Partridge and Orange for 20 years. I had no clue the traditional pattern calls for Brown Partridge. Paint me embarrassed!

Every recipe I googled calls for Brown.

Kelly, one day we will figure it all out.

[Kelly L.]

Dubbn,no problems. I know the yellow often uses the gray feather, instead of brown. But I don't know the absolute traditional on that either. I am going to be doing these in different colors. Right now I am tying on a Mustad 94840. I am still playing with the hackle. I am not really set yet on which way to do it.

[Greenwell]

As DUBBN points out almost every traditional partridge hackled fly pattern calls for brown back feathers. The neck and breast feathers are used on only a few patterns; mostly the lighter bodied flies such Partridge and Yellow, etc. However, I believe this goes beyond just the color required for a particular fly. The back feathers are very different from the lighter neck and breast feathers in texture and degree of feather cohesion; back feathers are softer in fiber and much more mobile in the water. They also tie with more control and are much easier to manipulate due to their thinner and more flexible center quills. The quills on the neck and breast feathers have a steeper taper and are also hollow and flatten when wound on the hook making it harder to get the desirable,(at least to me) small head which is the mark of a well tied fly. In short, back feathers are a pleasure to tie with when compared to the neck and breast hackles!
This is speculation on my part, but I believe that the popularity of Nemes’ books plays a part in the near ubiquity of the use of neck and breast feathers buy American tiers. Most of the flies pictured in his books and articles that incorporate partridge hackle show the lighter feather, and a cursory check of his pattern lists shows that in the majority of his recipes he calls for “grey” or “brown or grey” partridge. Other American writers such as Hughes reinforce this preference towards the grey feather.

Regarding length of hackle, I am much less critical now than I once was. I find almost no difference in effectiveness (and honestly, how could one ever prove the point) in any given pattern with a slightly longer or shorter hackle than what is considered “proper”. Individual preference, style, and experience should dictate what you feel is correct. The hackle length on my flies has moved towards the longer side in the past 10 years, in part due to studying traditional Spider patterns and in part because I find them effective in use and pleasing to my eye. If it looks good to you, you win!

For a good discussion of the topic of hackle length, see the chapter “Hackles” in Paul Schullery’s book, “The Rise”. He states: “Because of their origin in a vernacular school of fly tying that was not subjected to broad standardization, soft-hackled flies as a type are happily free from strict rules regarding proportion and other characteristics. Few other fly styles invite so much experimentation and variability”.

[Kelly L.]

Thank you Greenwell, for your thoughts on this. While waiting on the answer for the green flies, I decided to tie some in Gold, with a brown hackle from the partridge. A couple of them came out pretty nice in my opinion. But that nasty macro lens will tell me the truth...lollllllllll. I will tie some more, and post some photos later.

[Kelly L.]

Well I like this one better. Still playing around though. This one is the Gold 6A. I do more in hot orange though, I think. But I also want to try it in an antique gold too.