Hare and Copper Flymph

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Roadkill
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Hare and Copper Flymph

Post by Roadkill » Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:14 pm

This is the second fly I tied for the 2018 FFI-International Fly FIshing Fair in Idaho. I wanted to create a contemporary flymph modeled after the Old Traditional Hare and Copper Nymph.

Hook- Dai Riki 070 #14
Thread- UTC 70 Rusty Brown
Shuck- Rusty Sparkle Yarn
Body- Tan Hare's Ear+ dubbing ribbed with Copper wire
Thorax- Copper Bead
Hackle- Brown Speckled Hen

ImageIMGP3471 by William Lovelace, on Flickr
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tie2fish
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Re: Hare and Copper Flymph

Post by tie2fish » Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:14 am

I'll bet this will be a very successful pattern when fished for the trout that live in the Pacific Northwest - it has the flash and bright colors that rainbows and other sea-run fish seem to like. Plus, it exhibits the desired design traits of proportion and the prospects of underwater movement. But, BIll, as much as I have always admired your tying skills and boundless creativity, I must take issue with calling this fly a "flymph".

I know there are others on this forum who see my views on this matter as narrow and provincial, but I still insist that multiple turns of hackle and large heads do not make a fly a flymph. Pete Hidy tied plenty of flies that had tails that were more than just two or three strands of hackle barbs and some that had cylindrical bodies and even some that incorporated synthetic materials, but to the best of my knowledge, he didn't call any of them a flymph.

If one wishes to say that any fly that is intended to mimic an emerging insect -- part fly and part nymph -- can be called a "flymph", then I can't argue the semantics. But I still believe we should reserve the term for flies that look like and are tied like what Leisenring and Hidy had in mind when the term was coined.

That being said, sir, you have created yet another great looking emerger.
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Theroe
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Re: Hare and Copper Flymph

Post by Theroe » Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:00 am

+1 for the description Mr. Bill - provincial it may be, I’m but I’m on board.
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Roadkill
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Re: Hare and Copper Flymph

Post by Roadkill » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:39 am

Sorry if my flymph offends your sensibilities! I try to follow the only definition I know of from the master of the flymph...

"FLYMPH-A WINGLESS ARTIFICIAL FLY with a soft, translucent body of fur or wool which blends with the undercolor of the tying silk when wet, utilizing soft hackle fibers easily activated by the currents to give the effect of an insect alive in the water, and strategically cast diagonally upstream or across for the trout to take just below or within a few inches of the surface film."

I tied it with a translucent body of fur, an undercolor of tying thread and using 2 turns of soft hackle.

I used to tie flies like this before the name flymph was even published in 1971. My first tying lesson in 1959 included teaching me how to blend dubbing furs to achieve what Pete terms Mimicry. That is one reason I was happy to find Pete's book on the flymph in the 1980's. I have fished many of the same waters where the flymph was developed by Hidy.

I have tied at shows in Oregon, Washington, and Idaho where I have met and discussed Flymphs with old tying and/or fishing buddies of Pete's who complemented me on my flies and said how Pete would have liked them.

I find it ironic this provincial moment happened to me around a Hare's ear fly. Here is a quote from me in 2012 on the topic in the "one moment please" discussion about the definition. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3973&hilit=flymph+d ... n&start=10

"Only a few of us feather and fur fanatics split our Hares into Lug, Poll and finer hairs. ;) :mrgreen:"

To paraphrase Big Jim...
"We tie flies for pleasure: I for Mine, you for yours"

Enjoy your tying Gentlemen!
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chase creek
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Re: Hare and Copper Flymph

Post by chase creek » Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:16 pm

Handsome fly, well done!
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Johnno
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Re: Hare and Copper Flymph

Post by Johnno » Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:30 pm

Lovely fly.

I’m putting the helmet on and will comment that I wouldn’t call that a flymph either.

With that bead will it swim “just below or within a few inches of the surface film." ?

I accept that it largely conforms with the other parts of the definition, but I think that adding the bead, takes it away from strictly being a flymph in my view.

Not trying to offend sensabilities or make a criticism or get someone’s hackles up, just making an observation.

After all if we all agreed all the time; things would be fairly boring... :D
daringduffer
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Re: Hare and Copper Flymph

Post by daringduffer » Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:44 pm

There is no such thing as a flymph. The word flymph is a description of a fly and this description is different for different people. I suppose Jim Leisenring was fishing mostly wingless wets. I doubt if he ever called them by another name. I doubt Pete Hidy had coined the word flymph when Big Jim was still alive. I don't know. Mark Libertone tried to avoid this discussion by naming his forum 'Wingless Wet Forum'. Eventually it became this forum that still is open to other wingless wet flies, sometimes with wings.

To me, a flymph is tied using silk , fur and hackle the way described in the 1941 Leisenring/Hidy book (and later). Whether the hackle is tied just in front of the body or through the thorax isn't decisive for me.

What about the hackle? They liked cockerel hackle. Is this a soft hackle or just a softish hackle? A cockerel is a young cock. For what use did they prefer these? (Cannot remember the British author who used springy rooster hackles for his wet flies fished in wilder streams. It will come to me when I can't sleep).

Then there are flymph style flies. They can be tied with synthetic thread, dubbed or other deviations. This Hare and Copper is a flymph to some and not to others. To me it is a flymph style fly with a bead. I won't call the cops. I have hardly ever fished a fly with a bead but I don't frown upon those who do. I'm not Halfordian.

The best thing with this fly is that it forces us to think and go back to previous discussions. In the right hands it will catch fish. I have no doubt about that.

dd
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Roadkill
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Re: Hare and Copper Flymph

Post by Roadkill » Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:24 pm

Johnno wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:30 pm
With that bead will it swim “just below or within a few inches of the surface film." ?
Johnno,
When I fish this fly, it most likely will be trailing 1 or 2 other flymphs or soft hackles with little or no weight free to react to the currents.

In some of the stream flows and riffles I fish, any fly without this kind of weight will simply skip across the surface on a swing and not fish wet. One river I fish in Central Oregon I previously fished with a double or triple beaded Golden Stonely nymph to get just subsurface for the soft hackles to become effective.

The other reason is to use it as a tool fly with an upstream cast to get down near the bottom and feeding fish where the Leisenring lift comes into play. Can the Leisenring lift only be used with a "Flymph" within a few inches of the surface for the purists? ;) :) Many insects I imitate as emergers (flymphs) come from stream or lake bottoms and the feeding zone can at times be well below the surface fishing.

DD
I totally agree with you that Big Jim probably never fished a "Flymph". I also think that his method of rolling the dubbing across the pant leg is distinct from the dubbing block method as I have discussed with Jim Slattery. I can't distinguish the loop on the dubbing block method as significantly different in performance in water from a dubbing loop made on the hook. To me how you dub is a personal choice and I use many different methods depending on the effect I want. The main reason this fly was not tied with silk is that I am saving my limited Pearsall's supply for my personal use and not giving it away anymore in the flies at tying shows.
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