which one where

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TZNorway
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which one where

Post by TZNorway » Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:02 pm

Hi,

what's the general approach to fishing a set of three NC spiders. Say the Partridge & Orange, Dark Watchet, Spring Black. All size 14. Which one would you put where on the cast, and why?

Sorry off this has been asked before.

Cheers,
TZ
“All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.” - Douglas Adams
DUBBN
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Re: which one where

Post by DUBBN » Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:01 pm

Which ever pattern I have the most confidence in I place on the bottom. Furthest from the rod. Just for the reason I get fewer tangles in my setup when that is the hot pattern.

I am sure there's some formulas for the "perfect" set up but I missed or ignored it when it was published. ;)
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TZNorway
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Re: which one where

Post by TZNorway » Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:34 am

DUBBN wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:01 pm
Which ever pattern I have the most confidence in I place on the bottom. Furthest from the rod. Just for the reason I get fewer tangles in my setup when that is the hot pattern.

I am sure there's some formulas for the "perfect" set up but I missed or ignored it when it was published. ;)
:D

Certainly one approach.

Winged wet fly setups I approached as explained in Davy Wottons video, but am unsure how to approach NC‘s. Tangles haven’t been a big problem really. I used my own leader setup and just opened the loop a bit for casting multiple flies.

Cheers,
TZ
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letumgo
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Re: which one where

Post by letumgo » Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:18 am

Welcome aboard TZ. Can you tell us more about your leader set up. I’d like to hear more about it.
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DUBBN
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Re: which one where

Post by DUBBN » Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:31 pm

TZNorway wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:34 am
DUBBN wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:01 pm
Which ever pattern I have the most confidence in I place on the bottom. Furthest from the rod. Just for the reason I get fewer tangles in my setup when that is the hot pattern.

I am sure there's some formulas for the "perfect" set up but I missed or ignored it when it was published. ;)
:D

Certainly one approach.

Winged wet fly setups I approached as explained in Davy Wottons video, but am unsure how to approach NC‘s. Tangles haven’t been a big problem really. I used my own leader setup and just opened the loop a bit for casting multiple flies.

Cheers,
TZ
The tangles come from the fish taking the upper fly and making a mess of the other two flies dangling below. Not from casting.
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TZNorway
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Re: which one where

Post by TZNorway » Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:14 pm

DUBBN wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:31 pm
The tangles come from the fish taking the upper fly and making a mess of the other two flies dangling below. Not from casting.
OK, I would have to catch a fish first to experience that .... :o
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TZNorway
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Re: which one where

Post by TZNorway » Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:43 pm

letumgo wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:18 am
Welcome aboard TZ. Can you tell us more about your leader set up. I’d like to hear more about it.
Hi,

yes of course. Basically it is a Ritz 60%/20%/20% adapted to longer rods. My theory back then was that Ritz had a good solution, but that it turned over too hard for longer rods. I thought and still think that the 60/20/20 is the most versatile formula.

As Ritz did I also split the 60 part in two equal length and the 20 % tapering part in 4 equal pieces. Through empirical testing I came to the conclusion that a factor of 1,35 works the best for the rod I was using - a 9ft Sage XP 5wt back in the day. Now it is a Stickman P5 9ft for a 5wt line or a Sexyloops HT4 9ft or a Stickman P3 9,6 - all rods which are categorised as "fast" So your experience might vary a bit, but so far this hasn't been an issue and people using "my" leader are happy also on slower rods. The 60/20 is terminated by a small tippet ring (1,6mm titanium). There the tippet of again 20% is attached.

However, I think my approach is a good start for experimenting and fining ones own perfect factor. Factor being the factor one multiplies the rod length with to end up with the overall leader length including tippet.

Example - 9ft rod = 274cm - leader is 274cm x 1,35 = 370cm

60% of 370cm = 222cm - 2 pieces of mono - 116cm 0,45 and 106cm 0,40
20% of 370cm = 74 cm - 4 pieces of mono the 18,5cm each - 0,35/0,30/0,25/0,20

tippet ring

20% of 370cm = 74 cm - tippet

While playing around with this concept I was fishing in Germany in very small creeks. A tight loop all the way to the fly was crucial as we fished in "green tunnels". So I made an excel sheet with different factors from 1,2 to 1,5 and tied all those leaders with a blood knot vice to get them exactly right. It is important to enjoy ones neediness to the fullest ;-) No prisoners ...

Using this setup in all these years since I found out that I can actually lengthen the tippet by 100% if I desire so. I just need to be a bit more careful with the size of my loop and power application. (no surprises here).So when fishing a set of three I use the sonar leader and add two section of tippet to it so it ends up being 120%.

The concept is been published on the Partridge website as well as other forums many years ago. It never caught on so very much. I guess because "John Smith" prefers to buy a ready made leader. Buying all the material for making your own is a bit of an investment, but once bought one has enough stuff for years to come. I had my initial leader making kit with 200m Stroft GTM spools for at least 6 or 7 years. Give it a go if you can. You'd surely be amazed how easy this casts. I gave all my clients a leader and many stayed with it. It surely saves me a lot of time having to help clients untangling their stuff.

Cheers,
TZ
“All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.” - Douglas Adams
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TZNorway
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Re: which one where

Post by TZNorway » Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:29 pm

OK, but what about my initial question .... ?????
“All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.” - Douglas Adams
DUBBN
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Re: which one where

Post by DUBBN » Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:48 pm

TZNorway wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:29 pm
OK, but what about my initial question .... ?????
I was waiting for someone else to jump in and answer. In my opinion it doesn't matter.
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Ron Eagle Elk
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Re: which one where

Post by Ron Eagle Elk » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:39 am

I'm kind of like DUBBN, my point fly is always one I have the most confidence in, usually a Baillie's Black Spider, made popular by WC Stewart. It has taken more fish for me than any other single fly. After that, it's pretty much whatever I fancy at the moment, though something with peacock herl usually finds it's way to my leader.

I must admit ignorance of the finer points of fishing a wet fly, have never read a passage about what fly goes where, or watched a video on the subject. I just fish a lot.
"A man may smile and bid you hale yet curse you to the devil, but when a good dog wags his tail he is always on the level"
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